Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Thomas Wodhull

Male Abt 1387 - 1421  (~ 34 years)


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Generation: 1

  1. 1.  Thomas Wodhull was born about 1387 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England (son of Nicholas de Wodhull and Margaret Foxcote); died on 22 Mar 1421 in Baugé, Anjou, France.

    Notes:

    Killed at the Battle of Baugé while fighting in the retinue of the Duke of Clarence.

    Family/Spouse: Elizabeth Chetwode. Elizabeth (daughter of John Chetwode and Amabil Greene) died on 24 Aug 1475 in Warkworth, Northamptonshire, England; was buried in Warkworth, Northamptonshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

    Children:
    1. Thomas Wodhull was born between 1410 and 1412 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England; died on 8 Aug 1441.

Generation: 2

  1. 2.  Nicholas de Wodhull was born in in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England (son of John de Wahull and Isabel); died on 24 Oct 1410.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate birth: of Pateshull, Bedfordshire, England

    Notes:

    Also called Wodehyll. Sheriff of Wiltshire 1381-82.

    Richardson's Royal Ancestry, following various earlier sources, gives him as a son of a Thomas de Wodhull (~1322-~1376), himself a son of John de Wahull (1302-1336) and his wife Isabel (d. 1340). But in an SGM post on 18 Aug 2020, Richardson repudiated that model:
    Questions have been raised from time to time over the years regarding the parentage and extended ancestry of Nicholas Wodhull, Esq., died 1410, which individual was the heir of the ancient barony of Odell, Bedfordshire.

    In the case of Nicholas Wodhull, you have two basic options:

    Option 1. That Nicholas Wodhull was a younger son of Sir John de Wodhull [died 1336], of Odell, Bedfordshire, by his wife, Isabel.

    Option 2. That Nicholas Wodhull was a grandson of Sir John de Wodhull [died 1336].

    Option 1 has the support of two contemporary inquisitions, one visitation, and a contemporary record which proves John de Wodhull [died 1336] had a son, Nicholas. That's rather convincing evidence.

    Option 2 has the support of one late date Chancery Proceeding. That's all. Option 2 has a serious flaw in that it sets Nicholas Wodhull as the son of a certain Thomas Wodhull. There is no evidence that Thomas Wodhull ever existed.

    Extensive research in contemporary medieval records proves that the heir to the Odell barony is identical with a certain Nicholas Wodhull who was a prominent merchant in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Nicholas the merchant served as Sheriff of Wiltshire, 1381–2, and Keeper of Old Salisbury Castle, 1381. The records of Nicholas Wodhull's life are seamless and consistent (numerous debts through his long life). There is no hint that there were two Nicholas Wodhulls, just one individual.

    Conclusive evidence that Nicholas Wodhull the merchant is the same person as Nicholas Wodhull the heir is found in two helpful records […] found on the Discovery online catalog. We see [from them] that Nicholas Wodhull the merchant is identified as being the owner of the manor of Durnford, Wiltshire. This manor was part of the Wodhull family estates known to have been inherited by Nicholas Wodhull the heir. […]

    In summary, contemporary evidence proves that Nicholas Wodhull the heir is identical to Nicholas Wodhull, a prominent merchant of Salisbury, Wiltshire. Due to chronological considerations, it may be concluded that Nicholas Wodhull, Esq., merchant and heir, was a younger son of Sir John Wodhulll [died 1336] as stated in three contemporary records and a visitation record. So Option 1 stated above is the correct solution regarding Nicholas Wodhull's parentage.
    Writing on Wikitree, Andrew Lancaster is concerned with some chronological problems with Richardson's solution: "The most direct evidence of his identity comes from IPMs of Eleanor and Elizabeth in 1376. Three different juries in three different counties all name the heir as Nicholas Wodhull, brother of their grandfather John de Wodhull (d. 1348). This would seem straightforward, however, there is a problem. The IPMs also give the age of Nicholas as variously aged 24 and aged 30 and more. These ages are impossible for Nicholas to be the son of a man who died in 1336. So either the birth dates are wrong, or the identification of the heir as a son of John de Wahull (d. 1336) is wrong. […] In a completely separate IPM he was said to be aged 50 and more in 1403 (b. c1353). These ages are impossible for Nicholas to be the son of a man who died in 1336. Nicholas Wodhull was sheriff when he died in 1410; no one in their 80s would ever be appointed sheriff."

    Lancaster's solution is to postulate that the Nicholas de Wodhull who died in 1410 was a son of the Nicholas de Wodhull who is known to have been a younger son of the John de Wodhull who died in 1336. As Lancaster observes, this solution "has the advantage of relieving the chronological difficulties—a birth date of c1350 for Nicholas Woodhull now fits perfectly for him to be the son of someone born in the late 1320s. It no longer means his son and heir was born while he was in his 60s. He was no longer too old to hold the position of sheriff in 1381 [sic—Lancaster presumably means 1410]. This solution does mean that the IPMs were wrong in saying that the heir of Elizabeth and Eleanor Wodhull was their great-uncle Nicholas Wodhull; it should have said the heir was the son of the their great-uncle Nicholas Wodhull."

    To our mind it seems like the choice is between believing that several IPMs misstated the age of the Nicholas de Wodhull, or that several IPMs misstated his relationship to the recently-deceased Eleanor and Elizabeth Wodhull, heiresses to the barony. It's worth noting that IPMs, including these, did not usually give precise ages; they simply stated a person's age as X number of years "or more", because the concern was simply to establish that they were old enough to inherit, or to do some other thing that carried a minimum age requirement. Whereas IPMs were generally quite fastidious about establishing exact genealogical relationships, because the whole point of the exercise was to determine who inherited what. For this reason, we're inclined to go with Richardson's model, in which the Nicholas de Wodhull who died in 1410 was the Nicholas de Wodhull known to have been a son of John who died in 1336, and that this Nicholas simply lived a very, but not impossibly, long life. But, as Lancaster points out, "It ultimately doesn't matter. The important point is that Nicholas Wodhull (d. 1410) absolutely inherited the Wodhull barony from John de Wahull (d. 1336) either as his son or grandson."

    As a footnote, we've been (so far) unable to verify that this Nicholas de Wodhull was, as Lancaster asserts, a sheriff in 1410. The 1898 List of Sheriffs for England and Wales from the Earliest Times to A.D. 1831 (Public Records Offices Lists and Indexes 9) lists Nicholas de Wodehull only once, as sheriff of Wiltshire from 13 Oct 1381 to 24 Nov 1382. Searching on all the variant spellings of Wodhull has yielded us nothing else.

    Nicholas married Margaret Foxcote before 1367. Margaret (daughter of John Foxcote and Christian) died after 29 Aug 1405. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 3.  Margaret Foxcote (daughter of John Foxcote and Christian); died after 29 Aug 1405.
    Children:
    1. 1. Thomas Wodhull was born about 1387 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England; died on 22 Mar 1421 in Baugé, Anjou, France.


Generation: 3

  1. 4.  John de Wahull was born on 1 Nov 1302 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England (son of Thomas de Wahull and Hawise de Prayers); died before 30 Apr 1336.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: 1337

    John married Isabel. Isabel died after 20 Apr 1340. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 5.  Isabel died after 20 Apr 1340.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: Aft 4 Aug 1336

    Children:
    1. 2. Nicholas de Wodhull was born in in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England; died on 24 Oct 1410.

  3. 6.  John Foxcote was born in in of Andover, Hampshire, England.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate birth: of Wiltshire, England

    John married Christian. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  4. 7.  Christian
    Children:
    1. 3. Margaret Foxcote died after 29 Aug 1405.


Generation: 4

  1. 8.  Thomas de Wahull was born about 1273 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England (son of John de Wahull and Agnes de Pinkney); died before 30 Jan 1304.

    Notes:

    "In 1297 he was summoned to the council at Salisbury. He was summoned later that year for service against Scotland, and again in 1298 for a Scottish campaign. This latter campaign, under King Edward I, defeated the Scots led by Sir William Wallace near Falkirk. He was listed among the knights who took part in the king's campaign in Galloway during 1300, defeating the Scots on the River Cree Estuary. In 1302/3 it was recorded that he held his barony of 'Wahulle' by the service of three knights' fees." [Charles M. Hansen, citation details below.]

    Thomas married Hawise de Prayers before 1296. Hawise (daughter of Henry de Prayers) died after 1305. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 9.  Hawise de Prayers (daughter of Henry de Prayers); died after 1305.
    Children:
    1. 4. John de Wahull was born on 1 Nov 1302 in of Odell, Bedfordshire, England; died before 30 Apr 1336.