Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Clarice de Auberville

Female - Aft 1250

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  • Name Clarice de Auberville  [1
    Born of Iden, Sussex, England Find all individuals with events at this location  [2
    Gender Female 
    Died Aft 8 Oct 1250  [3, 4, 5
    Person ID I3177  Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of AP, Ancestor of DDB, Ancestor of DGH, Ancestor of EK, Ancestor of JTS, Ancestor of LDN, Ancestor of TNH, Ancestor of TWK, Ancestor of WPF
    Last Modified 19 Jan 2018 

    Father Robert de Auberville,   b. of Iden, Sussex, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Bef 18 Mar 1230 
    Mother Clarice de Gestling 
    Family ID F2006  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Fulk IV Fitzwarine,   b. Abt 1208, of Whittington, Oswestry, Shropshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 14 May 1264, River Ouse, Sussex, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 56 years) 
    +1. Mabel Fitzwarine,   d. Bef 24 May 1297
    Last Modified 11 Oct 2015 
    Family ID F1096  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • The predominant view of Clarice de Auberville, reflected in Royal Ancestry, Leo van de Pas's Genealogics, etc., is that she was the second wife of the Fulk Fitzwarine who married, first, Maud de Vavasour, and that this Fulk Fitzwarine, generally numbered "III" by later historians and genealogists, died in 1258.

      But in 2003, John P. Ravilious put forward a strong argument that Fulk III died in or just before 1235, that Maud de Vavasour was his only wife, and that Clarice de Auberville was in fact the first wife of his son Fulk "IV", who later married Constance de Toeni and drowned at the battle of Lewes. Mabel Fitzwarine who married William de Crevequer and John de Tregoz was Clarice's daughter by Fulk IV rather than Fulk III. Fulk V was, as in the model more commonly accepted, son of Fulk IV by Constance de Toeni.

      Ravilious's argument is based on several grounds and can be read in its entirety here. (It should be noted that the proportionally-spaced font used by Google Groups makes a hash of Ravilious's charts; this can be rectified by copying the text of the charts from the browser window and pasting them into any word processor or text editor capable of displaying them in a monospaced font, for instance Courier or Monaco.) A shorter post amplifying on one aspect of Ravilious's argument is here. It would be best to read Ravilious's argument in its entirety, but we note that among his evidence is a contemporary record in the Close Rolls in which, on 22 Nov 1235, Henry III grants to Hubert Hues a market that "was formerly held by Fulk fitz Warin, deceased." Fulk III had been closely involved with Henry and his court in previous years, and other records show clearly that this Fulk was the Fulk to whom the market had previously been granted (in 1219 and again in 1220); it is unlikely that the king or his court was confused about which Fulk they were referring to, or whether he was alive.

      But the argument that Ravilious considers strongest is worth quoting in its entirety. Ravilious quotes a 1249 record of the King's Bench given in Janet Meisel's Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf and Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272 (University of Nebraska Press, 1980), p. 50:

      "Fulk Fitz Warin acknowledges that he gave, conceded and by his charter confirmed to Mabil, his daughter, for homage and her service, his entire manor of Lambourn with all appurtenances, to have and hold for herself and the heirs of her body of Fulk and his heirs freely, quietly, etc., saving religious service, as is described in his charter."

      Ravilious comments:

      "Fulk 'III' FitzWarin (husband of Maud le Vavasour) was born in 1178 or before; in 1249, if he was still alive and married to Clarice d'Auberville, he would have been somewhere between 70 and 80 years of age. At that time he would have had a son and heir aged about 40 or more (Fulk 'IV'), and would be granting the significant manor of Lambourn, Berks. to his young (say 16-19 year old) daughter -- and Fulk 'IV' 's half sister -- Maud on her marriage to William de Crevequer, something that Meisel found to be incredible. It is far more believeable, and likely, that the 1249 grant was by Fulk 'IV' (aged 40 or more) to his young daughter -- Maud (by HIS wife, Clarice d'Auberville)."

      We're unaware of anyone refuting Ravilious's arguments or explaining why the commoner model of this family is more plausible, so despite the fact that most sources still show Clarice as the second wife of Fulk III instead of the first wife of Fulk IV, we're going with Ravilious's model.

  • Sources 
    1. [S784] John P. Ravilious, 3 May 2003, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.

    2. [S142] Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson. Salt Lake City, 2013.

    3. [S773] Louise Staley, 30 May 2006, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.

    4. [S49] Genealogics, by Leo Van de Pas.

    5. [S1526] The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz, Wife of Reverend John Owsley, Generations 1-15, Fourth Preliminary Edition, by Ronny O. Bodine and Bro. Thomas Spalding, Jr. 2013., month and year only.