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July 25, 2005

Memo to British fandom
Posted by Teresa at 07:25 PM * 96 comments

You’re all to KEEP AN EYE ON PATRICK and see that he COMES TO NO HARM.

And please send him back afterward.

Comments on Memo to British fandom:
#1 ::: Zoe ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 12:51 PM:

Everywhere he goes, Patrick will be accosted by responsible-looking people brandishing cotton wool, sticking plasters and restorative stiff drinks, asking him if he's *sure* he put his return ticket in a safe place.

(couldn't resist the Frist...)

#2 ::: Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 01:03 PM:

cotton wool, sticking plasters and restorative stiff drinks

Whew, I only recognized one of these without having to think about it. Talk about two peoples divided by a common language!

Also, remind PNH that the emergency number over there is 999, not 911. And that he shouldn't carry a backpack onto the tube while wearing heavy clothes. And that he should feel secure beneath the watchful eyes, although I'm not sure if the offer applies equally in Scotland.

#3 ::: Dave Weingart ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 01:11 PM:

Does feeding him single malt count as "keeping him safe" then?

#4 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 01:35 PM:

Dave Weingart: I should think so, yes. Particularly if you put a musical instrument in his hands (doesn't matter which one, I promise). Keep him off the streets all day and all night, that combination.

#5 ::: Charlie Stross ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 01:55 PM:

What? Does this mean you're not coming too?!?

#6 ::: sdn ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 02:06 PM:

i'll harass him whenever i see him. how is that?

#7 ::: Karen Babcock ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 02:10 PM:

I take it this means you won't be attending WorldCon, Teresa :-(.

Hearing your pithy and witty comments at panels is always educational, not to mention fun. Now I'll have to rejig my panel-choosing criteria (which included in part something like "panelists includes TNH: +8; panel topic looks relevant to editing: +3; panel starts before noon: -25" ).

#8 ::: Laurie Mann ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 02:11 PM:

Charlie, if she were coming, Worldcon programme would surely have her! *sigh*

T, I'm sure you know that Patrick is one of the folks on the whiskey panel...

Well, we leave later today. Assume the thunderstorms across Pennsylvania don't hold us up too much...

#9 ::: Paul ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 03:26 PM:

Larry: the number 112 is standardised across Europe, now. Which doesn't invalidate what you said (999 still works), just thought it might be useful in the future. ;-)

#10 ::: Anna Feruglio Dal Dan ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 03:54 PM:

Wow. I didn't know about 112. It's the Carabinieri here, I thought if one thing was certain to be local was that. (In Case of Tourism - 113 is the police and 118 is health rapid intervention. There'a fire dep number but I can't rember it. 113 fields any calls though. And hey, we're a pretty safe destination as long as you keep far away from Rome... and Venice... and Florence right now.)

#11 ::: Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 04:04 PM:

Indeed, Teresa isn't coming to Worldcon. For the same reason that a lot of Americans are bailing: unusually high summer airfares and a nasty exchange rate.

It sucks. I'm both looking forward to the trip and wishing Teresa was coming along. Off to the airport in an hour.

With any luck at all we'll both be at World Fantasy Con. Generally speaking, our near-future itinerary can always be viewed at the home page...

#12 ::: sdn ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 05:01 PM:

have a safe flight. see you on the flipside, as they say in the world of the antiquated hipster.

#13 ::: Paul ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 05:47 PM:

Anna: from your comments, I'm assuming you're in Italy. Italy also responds to 112 as an emergency number; the aim is to get it covering all European countries. Since my memory's quite limited, I'm therefore going to discard 113. ;-)

This page lists the current situation.

(Apologies if I misunderstood what you meant, I'm seriously short on sleep at the moment.)

#14 ::: Neil ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 06:03 PM:

I'm a bit puzzled. After mumblety-mumble worldcons, and mubmlety-mumblety-mumble cons generally, there can't be much trouble he hasn't already had ample opportunities to get into.

Except maybe the haggis pakora, but I trust him on that particular.

#15 ::: John Houghton ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 06:43 PM:

I'm a bit puzzled. After mumblety-mumble worldcons, and mubmlety-mumblety-mumble cons generally, there can't be much trouble he hasn't already had ample opportunities to get into.

Except maybe the haggis pakora, but I trust him on that particular.

Teresa didn't say "keep him out of trouble", she said "see that he comes to no harm."

Completely different.

#16 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 06:52 PM:

Charlie, so very sorry, but had to cancel. Check the transatlantic ticket prices to see why. My official line is that I am nobly keeping a stiff upper lip. And if you believe that, we have this bridge I should have sold you in time to use to the proceeds to buy a ticket.

I was on the programme. I was very much on the programme. At least one of the programme items for which I was scheduled -- and dammit, it's the one you're on too -- appears to me to be derived from one of my long-standing theories.


This is all George Bush's fault.

I've been consoling myself with The Family Trade, to be followed by a nice galley of The Hidden Family.

Dave Weingart, it depends on how much single malt you feed him.

Neil, I have no faith that there aren't more kinds of trouble to get into. Furthermore, some of the kinds he got into on previous trips would be much more worrisome now, like the gang of thuggish local youths who accosted him in Brighton as he was walking from the main hotel to another building. That time, he was rescued by Ross Pavlac, who spotted the problem, waded in, talked fast, and extricated Patrick from the situation. That's not going to be an option this time around.

#17 ::: jane ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 07:18 PM:

If I manage to get there, I will Mother Hen him until he begs for mercy. As I will already have Adam under one wing, I have nothing for the other wing. Henning Patrick will give me equilibrium. (Isn't that some kind of narcotic?)


#18 ::: Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 07:41 PM:

I'm not coming either for the same reason as T, except that we would have had extra passengers. We never managed to find cheap enough airfares for me and the kids. And most airlines wanted the same amount to transport Elizabeth (age 2) as they did me. Sigh.

#19 ::: LauraJMixon ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 08:59 PM:

Have fun, Patrick. Teresa, it bites that you can't go too. Here's some fellow feeling.

#20 ::: Chaz Boston Baden ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 09:13 PM:

I'll give him some fudge when I see him, then.


#21 ::: Madeleine Robins ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 10:12 PM:

Teresa, shall I send home reports of sightings and Patrick-ish wellbeing? I don't leave for Over There until Wednesday next, and am staying a few days past, on the grounds of doing research, but I'm sure our ships will pass frequently.

I will say, when I discovered you weren't coming, I almost felt like cancelling the trip; but by then I had a non-refundable ticket. Needless to say, you will be missed. Meanwhile, I'm all set up for the trip, we've got Skype set up on my laptop and the home computers, and, jet-lagged beyond expression, I hit Glassgow next Thursday morning.

(I am reeling at the notion of haggis pakora...)

#22 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 10:25 PM:

Librium: a tranquilizer
Imbrium: a Lunar mare (forecast: showers)
Barium: a milkshake fallen to the Dark Side
Equilibrium: a state of balance
Equipoise: a horse (non-narcotic)

And while we're summoning our Mael and Kami babies, may I put in a word after Elise? Not that she can't, etcetera, but one can't always be Robin at the rehearsal.

#23 ::: Anna Feruglio Dal Dan ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 10:54 PM:

Paul: oh, 112 has been an emergency number all along in Italy, I just didn't know about it being standard in Europe.

Teresa: this sucks so much. There's a WorldCon in Europe every ten years, it's so seldom that both sides of fandom come into contact, and I keep seeing people selling their memberships. I don't know why the plane fares have become so horrible. It doesn't cost so much to travel the other way. Is it that Americans are crossing the ocean in droves and buying up all the seats?

#24 ::: julia ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 11:33 PM:

oh, sniff.

Well, thank god for text messaging, anyway.

#25 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: July 27, 2005, 11:34 PM:

Anna: the main reason it's cheaper to fly from Europe, and a strong one so many people are doing it, is exchange rates. That is also a large reason why there is less traffic the other way.

I would certainly like to be in Glasgow (and London and Stratford and York and Leeds and a few other places that come to mind) but it's not practical just now. (If some transatlantic convention with more Euros than prudence would like me over there, I can be packed in twenty minutes.)

#26 ::: Tina ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 01:46 AM:

If it's any consolation, Teresa -- and I know it isn't -- I can't go, either. Since a large group of my friends is going together, and I've never had the chance to go overseas, I'm not terribly happy about it, although at least I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to do it. Must really bite to cancel at effectively the last minutes.

#27 ::: Jo Walton ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 02:32 AM:

We got flights for $900 Canadian, which is less than last year, but we did get them quite early.

I wouldn't presume to look after Patrick, but I already have some weird crisps for him. Sasha's been making a hobby out of collecting them, and my part has been preventing him from eating them all as soon as he gets hungry. Unless they've been consumed, I think we have mozzarella, sausage and ketchup and half a dozen other weirdnesses.

And Mike, I'll definitely do my best to look after Elise.

#28 ::: Dave Luckett ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 02:38 AM:

I, however, am going. All the way from Australia. I can only hope that the application of single malt to sore spots will ameliorate, for Patrick, what I said about rock music. Since I am only known as a filker outside Australia, he will have the opportunity to hiss me.

And yes, Sally, my wife, has also decided that she would rather stay home, considering the cost of this. Perhaps we can each make sure the other comes to no harm.

#29 ::: Alison Scott ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 03:18 AM:

I'm looking forward to seeing those of you who are coming, and will miss those of you who aren't.

Some time the exchange rate will be better and the winds more favourable.

#30 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 04:18 AM:

Amidst the cringes about haggis pakora, is this time for my recipe for haggis burritos to reach a wider audience?

(You just substitute haggis for the spiced meat element of the burrito. It goes well with refried beans and sour cream.)

#31 ::: Laurie Mann ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 06:28 AM:

We had yet another day of our vacation lopped off at the airport yesterday. For reasons we don't understand, much air traffic through Philly was hosed all yesterday evening. Various flights to Philly got cancelled. However, despite the fact that the Glasgow plane was flying into Philly from Tampa, mysteriously, that plane was getting to Philly and leaving on time. Grrr.

So, we never got on a plane. We'd be even more pissed off, except, after waiting for over two solid hours to be reticketed, we finally found a competent USAirways employee who's sending us to Glasgow today via Chicago on American Airlines.

So, hopefully, by tomorrow morning, we'll finally be in Scotland.

This will be our first overseas Worldcon (and Torcon was our first foreign Worldcon), so, believe me Teresa, Kathryn, and Laura, I quite understand how you feel! We've been there a bunch of times ourselves.

#32 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 06:40 AM:

Vinegared oats.

Uh, look, it's the Nike of Samothrace. In her shoes.

#33 ::: Epacris ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 07:05 AM:

May I draw this poetic tribute, from an online site for local North Scotland communities, to your attention ...
Ė by Lorna M. Angus
     Fair fa' yer honest sonsie face
     Great chieftain of the curried race ...

Another is on the second page at [PDF]
Since 1997, when my partner & I were shocked & amused to find garlic haggis balls in a caff on the Royal Mile in Edinburgh, there has been an evolutionary explosion, apparently. (Recipes here include 'creamy clap shot'.) The influence goes in both directions, as mostly happens. There is a report of a "Pakora Bar, at Sandgate (Ayr)" with "many different types of pakora e.g. haggis pakora, smoked sausage pakora, pork chop pakora", and a black pudding pakora in Paisley.

#34 ::: Avedon ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 07:19 AM:

He has just arrived.

#35 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:17 AM:

I think anything that starts with haggis cannot end well.

#36 ::: Tom Whitmore ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:43 AM:

Hope you all have lots of fun there; and do the Happy Dance for me when ConJose's final report to the business meeting is accepted!

#37 ::: Maureen Kincaid Speller ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:48 AM:

Teresa, I will ensure his safe delivery to Glasgow.

Xopher, haggis pakora sounds fine to me! But then, I do actually like haggis ...

#38 ::: Graydon ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:49 AM:

Mike --

Those are all good things, even if I can no longer sensibly consume two of them.

Haggis pakora would be fine so long as there were no oats in the haggis, but at that point it's not really haggis anymore. (alas.)

#39 ::: Laurie Mann ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 09:14 AM:

Graydon, haggis is bad enough but haggis pakora...truly terrifying.

But, still maybe not quite as bad as haggis with guacamole...

#40 ::: mayakda ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 09:29 AM:

Haggis with guacamole? Who would want to spoil perfectly good guacamole like that?

Teresa, it is all the Shrub's fault! *mails a spitball to the White House*

#41 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 09:38 AM:

Graydon, I may have been too terse. I was working out the components of Scots futomaki.

Which I suppose I can imagine being served in a small shopfront just off the city centre, with Jacobite banners to brush your noggin against on entering and C. R. Mackintosh chairs of an exceptional degree of discomfort.

#42 ::: Kip W ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:04 AM:

Speaking of, well, stuff. I had some haggis at the Stakys, but the next day there were two platters side by side and the sign indicated that one was vegetable haggis. I don't know which one I had had, and didn't think to take some of both and cover my bets. So much for haggis.

I, by way of irrelevance, am on the way from Virginia to our new home in West Springfield (cue the Simps theme), Massachusetts. I have already learnt how to spel Massachusetts. Everything we own and didn't discard is in one of three vehicles, two cars and a monstrous United Van Lines truck, all wending their ways by easy steps to the rough vicinity of Geri Sullivan. The land of liberals, where Teddy is my senator. There was a statue of a civil war veteran in Westfield. A Civil War veteran from the North!

Just had to share. Not sure when I'll be connected up again; I'm using the Hampton Inn's free wireless today, while Cathy and Sarah are shopping to pass time until the motel pool is ready for Sarah's morning dip.

#43 ::: Kip W ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:04 AM:

Oh yeah, and good luck to Patrick on that England thing. Wish we were there with him. That boy's gonna be okay.

#44 ::: Berni ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:22 AM:

Oh, while we're asking for watch-overs, please watch out for my David, too. He won't be at the Worldcon but will be at the big Tolkien bash in Birmingham the following week.
-- another wife staying home

#45 ::: Thomas Nephew ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:24 AM:


What with UK video camera surveillance, that's already more or less taken care of, right? Looks like he'll be the one with his name pinned to his jacket... :)

I hope he has a great time, and stays safe.

#46 ::: theophylact ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:29 AM:

P. G. Wodehouse knew the truth about haggis:

The fact that I am not a haggis addict is probably due to my having read Shakespeare. It is the same with many Englishmen. There is no doubt that Shakespeare has rather put us off the stuff.... You remember the passage to which I refer? Macbeth happens upon the three witches while they are preparing the evening meal. They are dropping things into the cauldron and chanting "Eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog," and so on, and he immediately recognises the recipe. "How now, you secret, black and midnight haggis," he cries shuddering.

#47 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 10:59 AM:

*throws a pilot's thumb at theophylact*

I remember the first time someone described what goes into a haggis in my presence (or possibly on the radio - the first time I heard it, at any rate). I recall that the very description of the ingredients made me physically ill.

And that was well before 1978, when I first became a vegetarian. I console myself (fox/grape fashion) for not being able to go to Glasgow by saying "Probably there would have been haggis there, anyway."

#48 ::: jane ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 11:51 AM:

Raises hand: haggis lover here. But why ruin it with guacamole or anything else but tatties and neaps.

Kip--I can see why you would want to move to W Mass. I have lived here for over 30 years and love it still. But why W. Springfield? Not the beauty spot. Go further north. Northampton, Amherst, Hatfield, the hill towns.


#49 ::: Graydon ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 12:31 PM:

Mike --

Just from a practicality perspective, I'd do that with vinegared barley, rather than oats. Boiling whole oats is a stubborn process, and it's hard to see how one of the ingredients of whisky isn't Scots in spirit.

I've had decent results from pickling beef brisket in cider vinegar before (semi) drying; haven't got the hang of the rice, and the apple bits brown quick, but one ought to be able to do much the same thing with mutton and a mint leaf for the true Scots flavour.

Can't possibly argue about the C. R. Mackintosh chairs.

Laurie --

I like haggis. (Farm kid. Memorable childhood experiences include having helped make head cheese with the head of the pig right there in a big pan on the table, and then eating some with lunch. The idea of cooking sheep machinery all together just doesn't manage to trouble me.)

What I don't understand is why the chick pea flour and deep frying would make it worse; pakora might not be suitable for, oh, I don't know, fresh snow peas or a chunk of aurochs, but for something that's basically loose sausage? Seems practically ideal.

#50 ::: Oliver Morton ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 01:41 PM:

This post saddens me twice over. The first time because I was really looking forward to meeting you. The second time because it brings home something I want to be in denial about. As someone who spends quite a lot of time thinking about the carbon/climate crisis, I know that one of the no-brainers is to start taxing air travel quite seriously, with an eventual aim of bringing fuel taxes on it into line with those on domestic fuels. And I know that means a world where I see a lot less of America and Americans than I do today. I donít want to give up cheap transatlantic travel, or cheap intercontinental travel of any sort (I think Atlantic first because those are the trips I make). But I suspect the days when we flitted around the world as freely we have been wont to of late are numbered. Or should be. Which sucks.

#51 ::: mattH ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 02:10 PM:

Oliver, I wouldn't be so sure that such a tax would be as effective as you might hope, especially if it were to drastically reduce air travel.

#52 ::: Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 02:22 PM:

Oliver: Zeppelins!

#53 ::: elise ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 02:33 PM:

*joins Maureen and Jane in the line-up of haggis fanciers*

Mike, my dear, your Scots futomaki fetched me. Now I'm hungry, and I just had breakfast even. (Also I suddenly want flummery ice cream, but that's probably not your fault.)

There is haggis verse out there that mentions haggis pakora, but I cannot figure out the linking magic today, so people will just have to google for themselves.

Patrick, what do you say we keep an eye on each other now and then, in the interests of efficiency and enjoyment? Wave at me when you come through the dealers' room, and we can go hoist a glass as you suggested or at least exchange hugs.

#54 ::: Joshua Kronengold ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 03:09 PM:

I see -- cheapest I saw with a quick search was Virgin for $840. You waited until -now- to reserve? Though that doesn't seem -that- much steeper, all things considered, than the $650 or so we paid a few months back.

#55 ::: Beth Meacham ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 03:48 PM:

I expect all of my friends and relations to have a wonderful time in Great Britain, and avoid all possible unpleasantness. Remember that Big Brother is watching, and avoid that back-pack nonsense.

#56 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 04:02 PM:

Laurie, Philly had a heat warning yesterday and you usually can't fly full planes when it's that hot. I don't know if that's the reason, but it's the first thing that comes to me.

jane: Kip may not be back here for a while -- they're moving to West Springfield because Cathy got a job there, she'll be chief librarian at Westfield State College (her old job had stagnated). Kip is a graphic artist, he can get jobs most anywhere, so they follow Cathy's jobs.

#57 ::: Magenta Griffith ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 05:32 PM:

Right now, Northwest Airlines has a "sale" price to London of $324 each way, which I calculate as $648 round trip. How much it would cost to get to Minneapolis to take advantage of that I don't know.

We need a new method of transportation.

#58 ::: sdn ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 06:24 PM:

i think one of the reasons patrickandteresa's flights were so expensive is the reason mine was: it's not an exact round trip. i'm flying into GLA and out of LHR.

#59 ::: Rob Hansen ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 07:03 PM:

Teresa: He arrived in good order, along with Lise Eisenberg. He, she, Avedon and I then went and ate at one of the many local vegetarian Indian restaurants in our neighbourhood, and Patrick declared his firm intention to eat there again before returning to the US.

Thursday being our regular pub night, he joined us, but didn't drink much. Amazingly, he is still awake and currently sitting downstairs talking with Avedon. It's midnight here so me, I'm going to bed. If he's awake early enough tomorrow we may cycle over to the site of the future olympic village, not that there's much to see there yet. That's it for me. G'night.

#60 ::: Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 07:24 PM:

Xopher: Shall I bring you back a vegetarian haggis? No, really, I saw them last time we were there.


#61 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 07:33 PM:

Are you sure that they're not made from vegetarians, not for them?

#62 ::: Mac ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:11 PM:

if ever there was an excuse for a party here at home...

#63 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:23 PM:

I have never combined haggis with guacamole. That may be a bridge too far. But my burrito practices are far from standard here in the wilds of Caledonia. I am still just happy to be able to buy tortillas and refried beans in the supermarket now. (When I first moved here, I had to make them both from scratch.)

My favourite haggis memory is walking along the Royal Mile in Edinburgh with my husband, and overhearing the following from an American (accent and volume):

You take this sheep, see, and use all the parts you can. Then, what's left over..."

At that point, the speaker wandered out of earshot, and the Hub and I turned to one another and said, simultaneously, "I fancy haggis tonight."

BTW, I have a dreadful hand binding of Atlanta Nights that I would love to hand over to someone at Worldcon, or get whatever Traves I can to autograph it, or something of that ilk. Its final destination should be Mr Macdonald, for auction. Anyone?

#64 ::: dlacey ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 08:31 PM:

I recently, (two weeks ago), found a Toronto to Glasgow return flight for $664 Cdn, including all taxes. Unfortunately it was too late to get the time off from work. I really wish I was going. To all that are, have a wonderful time.

#65 ::: Alan Hamilton ::: (view all by) ::: July 28, 2005, 11:17 PM:

I have to confess I liked the haggis I had at a B&B in Scotland. Black pudding is what I actually found revolting.

#66 ::: Ericka ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 01:32 AM:

TB, how much do you need? I would be a shame to break a tradition due to the lack of filthy lucre. Write or call (480-834-0400).
Hugs! Bunny

#67 ::: mythago ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 10:08 AM:

Notice, people, she didn't say "keep an eye on him" or "keep him out of trouble."

This is a *married* couple.

Are you sure that they're not made from vegetarians, not for them?

Standard haggis IS made from vegetarians.

#68 ::: mythago ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 10:09 AM:

dargh! Should have been AND keep him out of trouble.

#69 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 11:44 AM:


Standard haggis IS made from vegetarians.

You are very trusting of British agriculture in these post-BSE days.

#70 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 12:52 PM:

Xopher: Shall I bring you back a vegetarian haggis? No, really, I saw them last time we were there.

If it's boiled in a sheep stomach, it isn't vegetarian. If it isn't, is it really haggis? At any rate: no, even leaving out the flesh bits, it doesn't sound that good. Thanks for the offer, though.

#71 ::: Anna Feruglio Dal Dan ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 05:19 PM:

Ah yes, the wonderful cheap dollar. Wrecked our economy, but certainly was fun for me. Though I missed the goldem moment when the euro/dollar rate was 1,36.

#72 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: July 29, 2005, 06:20 PM:

abi, I can buy tortillas freshly made from a local tortillery. A lot of the local Hispanic folks stop there every day to get fresh tortillas for supper.

#73 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 03:55 AM:


Envy, envy! Unlike me, I bet they actually know how to make the tortillas stay tender. Mine were always either crunchy or chewy.

#74 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 07:50 AM:

One of the things about BSE is that there is a low rate of sporadic BSE in every country. Might be some other obscure cause, or it might just happen, same as the CJD in humans.

Which is why the definition of BSE-free doesn't specify a zero rate.

So, on BSE, the lack of cases in the USA is a reason to be suspicious of the US agricultural industry. It shouldn't be the odd case associated with imported livestock, though it may be the US beef cattle are being slaughtered too young for BSE symptoms to appear. It still ought to show up in dairy cattle.

And Scotch Beef is particularly good.

#75 ::: Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 02:25 PM:

Dave: Thanks for the recommendation of Scotch beef -- I shall plan on having some. I don't worry much about BSE -- with my family history Alzheimer's will get me anyway.


#76 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 03:15 PM:

abi, Manassas is projected to have more Hispanic students than any other race in this next school year. It's a big change for the city and I think they're handling it well. And there's the side benefit of things like the tortillery.


#77 ::: sharon ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 04:50 PM:

A good vegetarian haggis is pretty tasty. But not with guacamole.

(I thought that haggis pakora was something invented by Iain Banks in Wilt...)

#78 ::: Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: July 30, 2005, 07:51 PM:

Patrick defnitely alive and kicking this afternoon. Called here via cell phone with an emergency to talk to David about.

#79 ::: Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: July 31, 2005, 07:16 PM:

David left for the airport about two hours ago. The full reality of being in sole charge if the kids until August 9th is sinking in. No summer camp to drop anyone off at. No pool pass. (Those are things we decided to pass on because we were giong to Glasgow.) Just me: mother camp.

#80 ::: Charlie Stross ::: (view all by) ::: August 01, 2005, 03:56 PM:

Alas, Murphy's Pakora Bar in Glasgow -- a short walk from the conference center -- closed about five years ago. So, no dishes of haggis pakora, peanut butter pakora, squid pakora, deep-fried battered pakora, and etcetera.

#81 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: August 01, 2005, 04:01 PM:

Oh, Charlie, you're going to hate me for saying this...but all those dishes really sound like good reasons for it to close.

#82 ::: mythago ::: (view all by) ::: August 02, 2005, 12:17 AM:

You are very trusting of British agriculture in these post-BSE days.

Well, it's not the sheeps' fault that they're unknowingly being fed meat.

#83 ::: Kip W ::: (view all by) ::: August 02, 2005, 06:54 AM:

jane, we came up in June with two days to scout for a new residence. We looked at several communities, but being close to Cathy's work (see Marilee's comment) was an important consideration. Beauty is good. West Springfield has a nice feel to it, I thought on short acquaintance, and I like our new house and new street, and we're just down 20 from Cathy's job. There's a theater group just down the street from the new house.

We looked at Westfield first, but I didn't care for it. Holyoke had some promise, but the house we liked was on a corner lot: too much snow shoveling. I think this is going to be fine. We move in today -- should be exciting.

Marilee, we're making all plans to get to CapClave!

ps: Patrick should stop kicking over there. Might cause international incident.

#84 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: August 02, 2005, 06:47 PM:

Good, Kip! You'll get to meet Jill Smith, who posts here.

#85 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: August 02, 2005, 08:07 PM:


I don't blame the sheep. I blame the farmer.

That could be taken in a variety of ways, depending on what blameworthy matter was being discussed.

#86 ::: Debra Doyle ::: (view all by) ::: August 04, 2005, 07:47 PM:

Posting in this thread at Teresa's request: if someone reading this is in attendance at Glasgow, would they please ask Patrick to check his e-mail, and tell him also that he is not to worry.

#87 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: August 04, 2005, 07:49 PM:

We're all not worrying.

Thank you, Debra. (Absolutely no sarcasm intended.)

#88 ::: Debra Doyle ::: (view all by) ::: August 04, 2005, 09:43 PM:

Hey, I am but the amanuensis.

#89 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: August 04, 2005, 09:58 PM:

And a good amanuensis is hard to find.

#90 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: August 05, 2005, 02:54 AM:

"And a good amanuensis is hard to find."

Last one I knew of was Archie Goodwin.

#91 ::: Arthur D. Hlavaty ::: (view all by) ::: August 05, 2005, 09:19 AM:

Those of us who have read John Brunner's The Great Steamboat Race have a somewhat different take on the word amanuensis.

#92 ::: Mez ::: (view all by) ::: August 07, 2005, 12:54 PM:

Altho' we are well clear of both Burn's and St Andrew's Days the haggis meme seems to have propagated. From the Sydney Paper of Record: " the Column 8 (cue drummers and pipers) ALL-HAGGIS EDITION" (Friday, 5th August, 2005). They even recommend a local supplier.
No mention of fusion forms of cooking, however ... perhaps I should let them know. Are there Asian-Scottish local dishes (UK might call that Oriental-Scottish), I wonder?

#93 ::: Bill Humphries ::: (view all by) ::: August 07, 2005, 05:43 PM:

JVP: Zeppelins? That would require we Americans have more vacation. Ha!

Curried Haggis: I noticed they curry all sorts of things these days.

#94 ::: Sundre ::: (view all by) ::: August 07, 2005, 09:27 PM:

A few months back I saw a sign that said "Try our new chicken curry sandwich!" in the window of a Glasgow McDonalds.

I was not brave enough to go in. I love curry, but the though of what Mickey D might do to it makes me cringe.

#95 ::: Clifton Royston ::: (view all by) ::: August 08, 2005, 12:30 AM:

As long as we are writing about unspeakable horrors, congratulations to Charlie Stross, for his shiny new Best Novella Hugo for Concrete Jungle. (And I may as well add that I loved Accelerando - I hope it's up for Best Novel next year.)

#96 ::: Stefan Jones suspects spam ::: (view all by) ::: March 14, 2014, 06:56 PM:

Dead thread, commercial message . . . TERMINATE!

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