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March 11, 2002

Marking time (2)

You know why.

“The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting.”

—Milan Kundera [12:05 AM]

Welcome to Electrolite's comments section.
Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.

Comments on Marking time (2):

Nothing Ventured ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2002, 08:12 AM:

Am I to know why time is being marked, or why 9/11 happened? Is this a rememberance for someone or something lost, or an endorsement of the motivation behind what's shown in the jpg? Is THEIR struggle as noble as the minds' struggle to remember?aaI ask because I've been a devoted secret reader since submitting a manuscript some time ago. At first I was trying to grok the mind of an editor, then I felt like a stalker, now I'm just outraged. Because if this blogette is anything but a prod to elicit comments, then it's okay with me if my book rots on the bottom of the slush pile for questioning you in your own house.aaOr perhaps I've completely missed the point and am taking it on the patriotic chin. For I freely admit that this portal of liblogarians confuses me if I fail to cross reference each post and archive. So if I've got it wrong I'll go away; hopping on one foot because the other is stuck in my mouth, if that be the case.aaSay it aint so.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2002, 08:35 AM:

Good grief! Um, if I was opposed in principle to people "questioning me in my own house," I wouldn't have set up the comment function.aaMind you, I'm just as prone to be cranky or unfair when challenged as any other human being, but nobody needs to apologize for their temerity in raising a challenge.aaAs to the business of being a book editor, and the knowledge that some of Electrolite's readers are liable to be deferential because they want to sell me something, I commend you to the Patrick O'Brian quote in the right-hand column. The viewpoint being expressed is that of newly-appointed naval captain Jack Aubrey; the dinner companions are his officers.aaAll that said, what I meant to commemorate was the anniversary of the attack. The headline says "MARKING TIME"; the body copy says "You know why." Which is to say: you know why we're marking time.aaIf this is unclear, I don't think it has much to do with "cross referencing"; I think it's because I'm forgetting that people don't read headlines. aaBut I am a little boggled that, after everything I've written on the subject, anyone could think I'm extolling the nobility of people who fly airplanes into buildings full of innocents.

Christopher Hatton ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2002, 01:36 PM:

Dear Nothing Ventured: Start hopping.aaPatrick: Re the O'Brian quote: I remember back at a highschool graduation party for a classmate of mine (IOW a looong time ago), suddenly realizing that everyone in the room was listening to me. All at once. aaIt had never occurred to me before that anyone would listen to me at any time. I remember the instant burdened feeling..."I'd better make sure what I say is what I mean, and worth hearing." I've been trying, with limited success, ever since.aaRe NV: a) don't worry, some part of your audience will misinterpret anything you write (different ones each time), some wilfully, some out of ignorance/stupidity, and some just because they had a momentary lapse of good sense (AKA a Brain Fart). aab) I didn't actually do the text symantics correctly either. But I did get to the right place: "You know why" I interpreted as "this is why this picture is here on this date." I did read the headline, but my first reading of "Marking Time" is "in a holding pattern while you wait for something else to happen" (a marching band term). I knew that couldn't be what you meant, but it took me a while to get to your intended meaning (I hadn't seen your post yesterday about Jenna Felice). I attribute this slowness to BF on my part!

Simon Shoedecker ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2002, 02:14 PM:

I think I know why.aaGood grief, only 6 months and a lot of folks out there seem to have already forgotten. Comment -actually heard-: "We've killed at least 3000 innocent Afghans by now; let's call it even and go home."aaGood grief.aa"Remember the Alamo," "Remember the Maine," "Remember Pearl Harbor." I used to wonder why we needed such slogans.aaApparently we do.

Kate Nepveu ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2002, 08:12 PM:

2001 was, truly, a sucky year.aaHere's to making 2002 a better one.

Christopher Hatton ::: (view all by) ::: March 12, 2002, 10:40 AM:

Good God (and of course I refer to the Dagda when I say that), 2002 had better be a better year overall than 2001! In fact, I'm hoping 2001 proves to be THE worst year of my life. aa2001 was the year 19 people I knew personally (not well, mostly, I was new there, but by name and face) were killed by terrorists; that alone makes it substantially worse than any other year I remember...if even worse is in store anytime between now and, say, 2050, I don't think I want to see it.

Kent Roller , fka Nothing Ventured ::: (view all by) ::: March 12, 2002, 07:27 PM:

To finish the off topic thread I started85 I'll add it to the notes stuffed in my How to Get Published Without Writing A Damn Thing book. It goes like this: "Submit your piece to an editor who uses Movable Type on his/her personal web site. Then post to it deferentially. This will certainly gain more attention than buying 45 minutes of time with Kuo-Yu Liang at the Maui Writers Conference. Cheaper too. If nothing else, it will count toward your 1000 word a day goal."aaOn topic. In Hawaii we are as physically removed from the epicenter as fellow Americans can be. So we tend to equate WTC with Pearl Harbor, and not because Big Media keeps comparing 'em. We equate because we remember. Which may be another reason why I took the original post the wrong way. How can anyone forget? In NY you may be so close to the tragedy that the daily attitude shifts make the meaning hard to maintain. Out here, away from the trees, we see the woods. Marking yet more time will have the same effect on the whole world until eventually we all see the same thing: The struggle for or against power is a game. That humans have power at all makes us worthy of the contest.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: March 12, 2002, 09:14 PM:

Your problem isn't that you're "deferential". Your problem is that you keep trying to join the general conversation by playing games of "me-author, you-editor," and the general effect is unctuous and belligerent by turns. aaYou have a manuscript in Tor's submission stack, you began by telling us, and you've only been reading Electrolite in order to "grok the mind of an editor." Then you "felt like a stalker." (Hold tight to that interlude of self-knowledge.) Then you were outraged at what you convinced yourself you'd read into my post commemorating 9/11's sixmonth. (The fact that Electrolite consists of several tens of thousands of words hinting that this might not have been what I meant is something that appears to have escaped your urgent grokkings.) aaHaving been answered with reassurance and good humor--I really don't think the Patrick O'Brian quote I commended to you to is all that opaque--you return with further doses of the same. Another paragraph about you-the-writer, in which you drop another Big Publishing Name, and then it's off to the races. Yes! You misunderstood the original post because, you tell us, over in Hawaii, people have perspective! Unlike us blinkered New Yorkers, you can see the forest rather than the trees! How kind of you to share.aaAnd then there's this: "The struggle for or against power is a game." Here's my question: Do you say this to everyone who's been mugged? Or are you just being a clueless git especially for us?

Kent Roller ::: (view all by) ::: March 16, 2002, 06:50 AM:

Yeah, I was just fucking around. Dvorak explains it better...aa"Generally speaking, these postings are fascinating, since they often have serious elements of Hyde Park corner blather, besides blatant exhibitionism and obvious self indulgence."aaI've also jumped on stage at a Lover Boy concert, precipitating a riot that got me ejected on my ass. Thankfully, Electrolite readers are more civilized than rock fans. No disrespect to rock fans, of course.