How do you go about having a war on terrorism? How, in practical or theoretical terms, do you fight a war against a tactic? Will we see next a War on Siege, a War on Double Envelopment, and a War on Ambush?

Hmm. A cyanide cloud, and you're saying "don't hold your breath." Maybe we should, at that.

News like this tempts one to despair. Or useless, sputtering rage. I'm suppressing both at the moment.

You'll die when it's convenient for them that you die.

Oh brother. Who is the "them" in this bit of paranoid hyperbole? The government? The press?

From the article cited:

Since arresting the three people in May, federal agents have served hundreds of subpoenas across the country in a domestic terror investigation that made it onto President Bush92s daily intelligence briefings and set off national security alarms among the country92s most senior counter-terror officials.

The government has made several arrests, issued hundreds of subpoenas, and officials at the highest level are following the investigation. So they seem to be taking it seriously.

Are you mad at the press for not giving it more exposure?

"Ray Davis is right." ...and so is Vernor Vinge, it seems.

Blargh.

I'm just so glad they managed to catch the fuckers before they could build the ultimate weapon-- a Sodium Cyanide Alamanac.

Hey, I can't possibly be a terrorist! I can't even spell "almanac."

Derek, from what you've quoted, the government is treating the matter as a serious conspiracy, to be handled as a high priority matter by law enforcement. From local law up through FBI, in as many numbers as are needed, with as many special resources as needed. Presumably, but not mentioned in that article, special teams have been alerted due to this matter and are on call if and when some doors need to be blown in.

But that's not war. And we won't see special 'Target: right-wing domestic terrorists with cynanide' logos and theme music on CNN and Fox News. And we won't see many speeches by pundits talking about how these people only respect force, and we neded to deal with them harshly, for once and for all, lest THEY KILL US IN OUR BEDS RIGHT NOW WITH SMOKING GUN MUSHROOM CLOUDS....

And we won't see the blogosphere saturated with people who equate opposition to the government doing whatever it wants with these people with being objectively pro-cyanide-terrorism.

Because it's not war.

While I am certainly disturbed by the WMDs being found, I'm a little amused by where they were found: Tyler, Texas.

This is probably only cosmically funny to me, but hey....

I'm just so glad they managed to catch the fuckers before they could build the ultimate weapon-- a Sodium Cyanide Alamanac.

Hey, I can't possibly be a terrorist! I can't even spell "almanac."

I think you were confused by the fact that the bomb was found in Texas: remember the Alamonac.

Hmmm. What about a sodium cyanide Armagnac? Just the thing for taking out the liquorati.

Barry says: But that's not war. And we won't see special 'Target: right-wing domestic terrorists with cynanide' logos and theme music on CNN and Fox News.

Okay. So when Patrick says: The "war on terror" stopped being a war in your defense a long time ago. You'll die when it's convenient for them that you die.

...he's talking about CNN, FOX, pundits, and bloggers?

No, when it's convenient for the admnistration, and it's backers. The punditry and the SCLM will generally serve them.

And, Derek, I pointed out differences in administration action; I didn't just discuss the media.

Scott, it's time we wake up and smell the Sal Ammoniac. Or the Salieri Almanac, but that's another thread.

Piscus, I bet Tyler is on a hellmouth. I just bet.

Xopher: A hellmouth! Why didn't I think of that before? :)

Xopher, I grew up in Tyler. That would explain a lot.

"And we won't see special 'Target: right-wing domestic terrorists with cynanide' logos and theme music on CNN and Fox News. And we won't see many speeches by pundits talking about how these people only respect force, and we neded to deal with them harshly, for once and for all, lest THEY KILL US IN OUR BEDS RIGHT NOW WITH SMOKING GUN MUSHROOM CLOUDS...."

If right-wing domestic terrorists had killed 2500 people, I'm sure you'd see exactly that. Not that that would necessarily be a good thing.

I guess killing 168 people wasn't enough.

And back in the 90's (you know, the Evul Klinton Reign), over a hundred Americans killed in a terrorist attack was shocking.

I'm afraid that I'll have to point out that:

1) Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. UN inspectors were finding no evidence of WMD's, despite supposed US intelligence tips.
and

2) If, If, If Saddam Hussein had WMD's, he'd still have been somewhere betwen jack and jacksh*t percentage of terrorists with WMD's, for reasons that were obvious to anybody.

Sorry for shouting.

And sorry for messing up point 2, even with pre-view (which is your friend, but only if you listen to it).

On edit: ...between jack and jacksh*t percentage of danger that terrorists with WMD's would pose,...

Scott, it's time we wake up and smell the Sal Ammoniac. Or the Salieri Almanac, but that's another thread.

Maybe they would be wiser to keep their WMDs simple, Xopher. Disguised as nuts, perhaps.

I mean, a sodium cyanide almond-- ack!

You'll die when it's convenient for them that you die. And Ray Davis is right.

So was Hunter S.Thompson, who said "There is no parinoia---only people who are uninformed."

It's certainly ever so darn silly for anyone to fret that we appear to be moving toward dictatorship.

According to the first paragraph of the first article you link to:

"Federal authorities this year mounted one of the most extensive investigations of domestic terrorism since the Oklahoma City bombing . . . one weapon of mass destruction - a sodium cyanide bomb capable of delivering a deadly gas cloud - has been seized in the Tyler area."

The second article you link to says:

". . . -they need look no farther than the startling non-response to domestic terrorism by the Bush administration. [...]"

Federal authorities mounting "one of the most extensive investigations of domestic terrorism since the Oklahoma City bombing" doesn't sound like a non-response to me.

Do you even read the stuff you link to?

Question, Yehudit: what kind of profile does this investigation (however extensive or non-extensive it may be) have in the media and the public mind as a whole? Do you think most people are aware of it, and that the government and the media as a whole are making a point of talking about it? (If not, why not?)

One other question: are you _trying_ to get disemvowelled?

Yehudit:

If you take the time to read Niewert's post quoted above, *public perception* is at stake here. The fact is that terrorism directed against U.S. citizens is at least somewhat likely to be home-grown, and white, and right-wing. But somehow that never seems to be the way that it's portrayed.

This story, which even the government admits was major, was covered on a *local news station*.

Come back and let's talk again when it gets one tenth as much airplay on FOX or even CNN as, say, those WMDs we're still looking for.

Cheers and happy new year.

"one of the most extensive investigations of domestic terrorism since the Oklahoma City bombing"

But that's just it, Yehudit-- the key phrase is "investigations into domestic terrorism," emphasis mine.

Individuals merely suspected of involvement with Islamic terrorist groups are flushed down the memory hole while Bush Administration near-humans do cartwheels to explain why they don't ever have to answer to anyone, ever, ever about how they make the Bad Men Go Away.

Yet our own homegrown species of terrorists and wannabe terrorists (At the moment, the "militant underground left" in the US has nothing on white supremacists and anti-UN, anti-"guvmint" come-to-Jesus-types) continue to celebrate a lifestyle revolving around the open acquisition and frequent display of huge amounts of firepower. They cherish the utterances of twits like G. Gordon Liddy, famous for reminding his listeners to always shoot federal agents in the head because they wear body armor on their torsos.

Meanwhile, the FBI publicly announces that it's looking for people using almanacs in a suspicious fashion.

Can you see how some of us might become a bit aggravated at the highly amusing blind spots, exceptions, and double-standards that seem to have evolved for some flavors of potential terrorism, and how funny it is that the people who aren't rotting in holes in the ground are all avowedly Christian, avowedly right-wing "reg'lar fellas?"

I mean, if it's just to be the "War on Crazy Shitbag Islamic Militants," then so be it-- they're a huge detriment to their religion, to their cultures, to the stability of the world, and to the welfare of millions of people. Let it be open season on al-Queda and the Taliban until they're nothing but funny words in history books, fate willing.

But if it's the "War on (All) Terror," why aren't all would-be terrorists getting the Gitmo treatment and having their rights as citizens arbitrarily suspended?

If there's no qualitative or quantitative difference in their alleged intentions, why are the would-be sodium cyanide bombers (very heroic of our Noble Champions of the Pale Races, that device) getting lawyers, phone calls, contact with family, etc. and all the other privileges not given to Jose Padilla?

Cheers,

SL

"One other question: are you _trying_ to get disemvowelled?"

A bit over the top, I think. The post in question was heated but not offensive.

In retrospect, yes. I reacted badly to the last sentence, mostly. My apologies, Yehudit.

Remember, kids: If you kill liberals or government workers, it isn't terrorism. It's just a crime, or maybe not even then. "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."

Comments on the so-called liberalness of the NYT are elided.

Patrick's Berenson quote was chilling.

I remember when we found out that Oklahoma City was home-grown and everyone relaxed. I didn't. I felt woprse than before.

Well, I understand why my Iranian friend relaxed. And apparently Congressman Helen Chenoweth (R, Id.)didn't relax; she saif something like "Now maybe people will listen".