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April 27, 2004

Cyprus redux. Well, so much for that. [08:04 AM]
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Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.

Comments on Cyprus redux.:

Tom Scudder ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 08:23 AM:

For some reason, this result depressed me more than any of the many objectively-worse things happening elsewhere in the region.

Possibly because in this case actual good could have been done, and easily, but wasn't.

Hlvictoria ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 01:45 PM:

I don't know if I'd say I was depressed by what happened, but it certainly is unfortunate that people once again show that putting aside ethnic differences for a higher goal just doesn't come easily.

Once again, the fear of "difference" rears its ugly head in politics. Bringing in a Turkish northern Cyprus would not only be good for the island; it could show that Christians and Muslims can both be peacefully integrated into the EU.

Hlvictoria ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 02:09 PM:

Actually I have to say I'm disappointed to note that none of the "big" leftist blogs have commented so far on the WTO ruling against US subsidies. For the first time a third world nation has been able to challenge a first world nation in Free Trade talks, and the WTO has responded by saying that the US does indeed violate international trade rules.

The ruling is only a preliminary decision, however, and could be reversed in June. If Bush decides to eliminate subsidies, however, he could lose major support from the Farm belt areas in the US.

There are many significant implications to this ruling. For the first time, first world nations could be forced to live by the same rules they impose on third world nations when it comes to trade (via the IMF etc)!

I'm surprised that neither Kos, nor Atrios, nor any of the other big leftists has chosen to blog about this.

Patrick, I thought maybe you might be interested in taking a further look (a href="http://new-world-blogger.blogspot.com/2004_04_25_new-world-blogger_archive.html#108308871547293781"my $.02 article on the WTO ruling). I got the story from the Financial Times, and I think it's worth a look.


I just think this is a far too important issue to be overlooked by the blogging community ;)

Hlvictoria ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 02:10 PM:

oops I forgot to close that link ;)

Terry Karney ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 05:11 PM:

I don't have all the details (the embedded link in the article required registering, and I am just tired of adding to the list of such sites... I don't want to add to my password load, lest I start to recycle... or keep lists), but barring that, I can't say, ipso facto, the Greeks are wrong.

The single quotation about why the voted against it related to something which might have been a legitimate fear, and I've no way of know what the negotiations were like.

It still saddens me... either the Greeks are being shortsighted, or the Turks are, and regardless both of them lose.


Clark E Myers ::: (view all by) ::: April 27, 2004, 06:40 PM:

Hardly an exclusive or when it comes to being shortsighted.

I have been known to wonder what Grivas really hoped for at various stages of his career

(a marvelous character study: Carlos the Jackal or Che with brains, talent and focus - consider the stories of how Grivas left nothing with his scent when he went underground)

- but surely Grivas was an adherent of the worse the better in his dealings with Great Britain and arguably with Turkey (see his last days on Cyprus).

Quite possibly coninuing long range aspirations for union of the entire island with Greece resulted in another the worse the better decision?

Terry Karney ::: (view all by) ::: April 28, 2004, 03:11 AM:

Well, the or seems to be exclusive, in this instance, from the limited nature of the comment.

The sticking point (from the quotation) was the presence of Turkish troops. Apparently the deal has the Turks saying, "sometime after the reunification, we'll take the troops out... honest."

I can see where a lack of timeline might make the Greeks nervous. Yeah, the Eu can impose sanctions, but that could be a lot of a little; too late.

Do I think the Turks are operating in bad faith, no. Do I think the Greeks are imputing fell motives the Turks don't have, probably.

Do I think (if the situation is as it seems) I'd be prone to vote differently from the Greeks... I don't know.


John Q ::: (view all by) ::: April 29, 2004, 05:58 PM:

Disappointing, but not nearly as bad as the opposite result (Greek Cypriots voting Yes and Turkish Cypriots voting no). I have a bit more here

Clark E Myers ::: (view all by) ::: April 30, 2004, 06:28 PM:

This just in from the BBC:
Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos says he still supports a UN plan for the divided island, even though he campaigned against it in a referendum.