What, just because the City on the Hill is in the process of validating a crook who happens to have the worst record of any president since Grant?

Just because four years ago, the one consolation I took was that he would do such a bad job everybody would see what a tool he is? And he did worse than I could have ever expected, and they didn't?

Torture doesn't matter. Dead soldiers don't matter. Stolen weapons don't matter. Avoiding his service doesn't matter. Corruption doesn't matter. Class warfare doesn't matter. Inaction in the face of terrorism doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. What matters is... I don't know how to finish this sentence. What could possibly have decided them that a courageous war veteran who fought for his comrades abroad and at home, who helped expose BCCI and wrongdoing by both parties, who encourages debate instead of insisting on loyalty oaths, was a weak-kneed flipflopping traitor?

Reality doesn't matter. The only real thing now is the pain, and I guess that doesn't matter anywhere outside my stomach.

I'm sorry. I have no optimism left that the next four years will open any eyes, either. Ooh, chocolate rations will be doubled! Let's see Eastasia top that!

Wow. I tune in for for a dose of your bracing "get-over-yourself-and-stop-whining" smack on the head, and find you as despairing as I am this morning.

Oy.

A phrase guaranteed to bring hope when all is lost, and gloom when things are going their best:

"This, too, shall pass."

This old soldier gives up. A majority of Americans have decided they want to live in an imperialist feudal theocracy separated from the rest of the world, OK. I guess dying as a good "Christian" soldier or living the dificult life of a serf will make it easier when the rapture comes. Boy, I/m glad I don't have grandchildren.

This is why I read good fantasy, Patrick et al. Many thanks to you and Theresa and your cohorts for that as well as your blogs.

"This, too, shall pass."

I said that four years ago. I can't muster the optimism to say it today.

A commenter at CT posted a bit of Pope which says what I'd like to say.

See skulking Truth to her old cavern fled,
Mountains of Casuistry heap’d o’er her head!
Philosophy, that lean’d on Heav’n before,
Shrinks to her second cause, and is no more.
Physic of Metaphysic begs defence,
And Metaphysic calls for aid on Sense !
See Mystery to Mathematics fly!
In vain! they gaze, turn giddy, rave, and die.
Religion blushing veils her sacred fires,
And unawares Morality expires.
Nor public Flame, nor private , dares to shine;
Nor human Spark is left, nor Glimpse divine !
Lo! thy dread Empire, Chaos! is restor’d;

I've been through worse than GWB. I've been through Marcos. It took a long time, but he finally got what he deserved. And you know what toppled him? People speaking out in spite of fear and apathy and depression. People not giving up. People seeing more in common with each other than with him.

There, did that help?

um.

What about this did we not know before yesterday?

That it was going to be close? That the systems in Florida and Ohio were gamed? That the Republicans raised money and volunteers to keep voters from the polls?

We raised a whole lot of money for lawyers on the assumption that all of that was going to happen.

I don't know that it's time to buy into the narrative yet.

I've shared your optimism and I am not by nature an optimistic person. I don't know what I feel this morning. Numb maybe, disbelieving. Perhaps horrified. This can't be my universe.

Julia, it's probably not, but I guess this is the measure of my limitations. Hit me this hard in this particular way and, evidently, I fall over. (The fact that I've been sick for several weeks probably has something to do with it too.)

Mayakda, that's a very good point, and I hope people take in on board even if I'm too worn out to do so.

Beth, I'm not entirely sure it's optimism.

I thought I would be completely depressed if Bush won. Strangely, I'm not. Looked at the headlines, thought: "Bush won. He's still evil." I have not changed my mind about that. I don't doubt myself.

I feel like I’ve lived a fundamentally foolish turn of mind, like I’ve been defrauding my friends with an amped-up similitude of rational optimism, and that I can’t imagine why anyone should henceforth care what I think about anything.

Patrick, do you believe that Kerry lost because you were too optimistic?

I'm sorry you feel foolish . . . but I'm sure none of your friends have lost any respect for you. Perhaps they have known you to be mistaken before : )

This quote was floating around Making Light recently (I'm giving the English, not the Anglo-Saxon):

"Heart shall be bolder, harder be purpose, more proud the spirit as our strength lessens."

That's how I feel. I never believed Kerry would be much different from Bush - just a little different. We'd still have to fight.

Looking for hope?

It's not over till it's really over. I'm waiting before crying in despair, because every vote should count, and every vote should be counted.

The following two sentences come from an article at the Washington Post.

Kerry found his strongest support -- more than 80 percent -- among those who named the economy, jobs and the war in Iraq as their most important concerns.
[...]
In Ohio, the economy and jobs topped the list, named by almost twice as many voters as those who singled out Iraq.

I'm still hoping, Patrick. And I'm usually the "canary in the coal mine", rather than the Pollyanna of cheerful spin.

There are only a couple of days in each month when I feel healthy enough to leave the house and run errands. I worked for about two weeks to make sure that yesterday would be one of them (and even if it wasn't, I told Angie to pour me into the car if she had to.

For the last several months, I have spent the overwhelming majority of the few hours a day in which I am capable of something resemblimg organized action obsessively following and digesting the news; living inside the numbers; reading the tea leaves; and trying to flog my diminished control of language into allowing me to adequately shape and express my thought to others, so that I might contribute whatever thoughts or insights I had to the overall debate. It's actually annoyed Angie considerably on more than one occasion to see me spend so much of my physical and mental capital on the world of politics: She knew plenty well ages ago that she wasn't voting for Bush, and that was enough.

So I was slightly surprised when, as we walked through the grocery store after our brief (ten minutes, in and out; no lines, no wait) and quixotic foray to vote for John Kerry in the bloody red heart of GOP Georgia, Angie said to me, "I don't think I've ever wanted anything as much as this."

For the last several years, my life has been like a slow-motion replay of the second half of Flowers for Algernon — I'm extremely unemployed, our finances are a shambles, I have entire days where every breath or heartbeat causes my whole body to throb with pain, and far too much of the world slips through the grasp of my increasingly clumsy mind. And yet, none of that has been enough to do more than bum me out occasionally. I am not a person naturally disposed towards despair.

Last night, however, crushed me. This is just so much worse than I could have thought possible.

Intellectually, I agree with you that things could certainly still be worse. In fact, that's part of the reason why this is so devastating — because I can see absolutely no reason to think that they won't now get worse.

In other words, what you said.

Even without knowing for sure yet, it's clear that it was a great night for homophobia, misogyny, and the pending theocracy.

I keep running into moderate Republicans here at work, who claim they voted for Bush reluctantly, only because of one or two issues, and seek to disavow responsibility for many or most of their party's platform and actions.

If it turns out like it looks like it will, what I think they all need to hear, frequently, is this: "Hey, he's your guy. You voted for him. In four years, if Iraq isn't a thriving democracy, if the Middle East is still a disaster, if our economy isn't completely recovered and it isn't raining jobs, if new justices are appointed and Roe v. Wade is overturned, if the United States is still engaging in international empire-building and torture, or if any one single child has been left behind--it's your fault."

They don't get it, though. They don't believe they've just signed off on the last four years. They don't believe they are personally responsible.

Patrick, don't despair yet.

Firstly, you're not the only person who thinks that way. You and an army of millions came very close to toppling the current regime, in the most expensive, dirtiest, most negative election campaign in US history. Those other folks are mostly blinking and going through the same depression as you are. (It's depressing enough even for those of us who don't live in your country and don't vote, but I digress ...)

Secondly, this is a high water mark for Bush's movement conservativism. With a war on, and the knee-jerk patriotic rally-round-the-flag instinct that brings out, and with the manufactured moral panic over gay marriage and a campaign twice as expensive as his last one, he still barely scraped in. Whereas the democratic election machine is a clear decade behind the republican one in sophistication and organization, and still gave a wartime incumbent a panicky-close run.

From out here, it looks as if the movement conservatives are at full stretch -- and they've just been handed enough rope to hang themselves with, over the next four years.

The biggest threat (in the medium term) is the supreme court, and even that isn't a done deal.

So don't despair just yet ...

I hear you - I made the mistake of spending yesterday with a paleo, who made a rather fierce argument in support of poll challenges because it's more important to keep one felon from voting than to let thousands of citizens vote. He had, of course, heard lots of stories about Democrats doing illegal stuff, although when asked to narrow it down to an actual instance he went back to what was "reasonable to assume."

I feel gutpunched by the number of people who are willing to watch their children die or get mercury poisoning if the tradeoff is that they get to tell other people what to do with their genitals, but I knew they were out there.

I would have liked to have been able to avoid what's coming, but this thing was close enough down to the wire that if we weren't going to court, they would be going to court.

The votes aren't counted yet, and if we give up they won't be.

Pollyanna isn't my best role, I know, but I feel wierdly calm about all this.

$.05 and all that.

It seems like a place to go on from, from here. Not a good place, but a place of necessity.
In other words: stop, breathe, be good to yourself. And remember people care what you think.

Also (please feel free to berate me for my pessimism) it can always get much worse.

We made it through the Civil War, the Great Depression, WWII, the Gilded Age and the Cold War.

We'll make it through this. There will be a price to pay. I expect to see Roe v. Wade overturned. I expect to see barriers between church and state dissolved, and prayer made mandatory in our schools and in our courts. I expect to see our power and status decline. We will cling more fiercely to the idea of American exceptionalism, the less justified it becomes. But we will make it through this. I just hope that we don't lose any cities in the process.

Charlie, I hope you are right, and that this is the high water mark for movement conservatism. I still think that there's hope in the face of adversity.

An English friend of mine says this reminds her of the 1992 election in the UK, when the Tories were prepared for one-party rule. Now they're totally in the crapper.

I'm not a fan of the Nader strategy, and I think we need to organize with our mourning, but Charlie may be right. This may be their high water mark. There are so many things going against them--the long-term economic signs, and the question of how they will fight their war without a draft, for two--that even the "reluctant" Republicans may not be able to stomach them next time.

The question for us is "How do we help make sure it doesn't happen again?" and we just need a few days to think about it.

(And yes, I know we're not done counting, but I am prepared for the worst. I believe in the possibility of miracles, but I don't count on those I can't make my own self.)

Oh, Patrick. I feel the same way.

I've been fighting the urge to delete my blog. At the very least, it's hard to imagine ever updating it again, because what would be the point? If everything we've said so far hasn't made a difference, what more could there be to say?

I find myself thinking a lot about miscarriage today. I don't know, it just seems like nothing could live in a body this hopeless and a country this determined to send itself to hell.

Fortunately, I think the baby is probably smarter than I am. Any day now, I should be feeling her move... and then I'll have to get over my sadness and start back to work, trying to make the world a fit place for her to live in. I ain't there yet, but I'm just having to trust in blind faith that I will get there.

What Ron in Portland said -- Boy, I'm glad I don't have grandchildren. -- really got to me; what makes this election hit me so hard is that I have my daughter's future to think about. (Note -- I do not mean to dismiss anyone's reaction to the election who has no children; just talking personally here.)

What can I say to Sylvia about the country she lives in? When I was growing up, my parents raised me to be pretty interested in politics and a bit enthusiastic about democracy -- I guess they also instilled in me some cynicism about the choices democratic America ends up making, but only enough to counter-balance the enthusiasm and keep me from being silly.

But what can I say to Sylvia? "We live in a country where the majority of the population wants a right-wing theocracy." (She is not old enough yet to understand the concept of "right-wing theocracy" but I'm thinking down the road a couple.) I'm kind of at a loss here. Would welcome advice from others asking similar questions and what you are coming up with.

I don't know if I want to live in this stupid country anymore. And I don't mean 'stupid' as a generic 'bad' adjective, I mean that the American voting public, a majority of them, are stupid. Or evil, or crazy.

Anybody in Canada want to put me up for a while until I find a job and get Landed Immigrant status? Just in case I decide to bail.

Mind you, I might move back in oh, 2009. But "it can't happen here" cost an awful lot of "assimilated" German Jews their lives, and I'm going to bail before a horde of Ann Coulter's squad pulls me from my house and beats me to death.

Ten months ago, some pundits were looking at the war, looking at the Democrats, casting their minds back and talking about 1972.

Last night might not have been good, but it certainly isn't a 1972. As I understand these things, it'd be a hell of a remarkable reaction to any administration that wasn't this one, in fact... but it's still demoralising.

The election is close, but it's not been called unless you're the White House. It's tight, but it's certainly not Florida.2000 - people know what they're trying to do, and they seem to be hitting the ground running. If it comes to pass, well, I suppose it comes to pass. But, as they say, then it will pass...

And Patrick, it was optimism like yours that gave us Pennsylvania, for example. We almost won, remember. Without optimists like you encouraging the rest of us, it wouldn't have been (as) close.

Sometimes the Good Fight is a march to victory.
Sometimes it's a delaying action.

The bad guys have more money, so the good guys have to try harder. Losing (even as important a cause as this one) doesn't mean the effort wasn't worthwhile. No one but Dubya himself really believes he has a mandate; also, we can look to taking back the Senate in 2006.

My previous comment was more despairing, and I am, actually, in reasonable fear for my life under this administration (queer Pagan socialist that I am). But I'm not. going. to. give. up.

Stubborn that way. Maybe stupid, but it's MY stupid.

Patrick,
It was and is rational to cheerlead, to keep people from giving up early. It's rational to feel bad right now about the disappointing results (and they'll be disappointing even if Kerry miraculously runs the rest of the electoral college table -- he'll still have lost the popular vote by a big margin).

Rational people (and me besides) will continue to respect your opinions and check by often to see what you have to say.

Trite but well-meant advice: do something else for a while. Go for a hike, to an art museum, home to the folks, or whatever recharges you, and come back refreshed.

I find myself fighting madly not to fall into the pit of dispair.

And as the mother of a thirteen year old boy I am having fond thoughts of friends in Canada and an extended holiday four years from now...

--claire (who Patrick once told to not to give up and who is trying not to)

I give up. I don't know what else to say. I can't shake this feeling that this is where it all stops, that for the rest of my life, the United States will be decending into oligarchy and destruction; if Kerry couldn't win now, with all thats going on, its clear to me that there is no place for my ideals in this country.

Oh, Jesus, Rivka. I've felt pretty awful, but I started to cry at my desk when I read your post. Please, please don't say that again. We will get through this.

Fifty-five million people voted for Kerry. That is the most votes any Democrat has ever received for President. If 1.5% of the people had changed their mind, Kerry would have won the popular vote. That's even with the power of incumbency on Bush's side.

The movement is strong and getting stronger. We just haven't won yet. What, you thought this was going to be easy?

Can we get 1.5% of voters to change their minds? I think so.

Yeah, I'm disappointed, and pissed off, and I'll spend a few days or weeks sulking. It is, after all, National Novel Writing Month. I'll write my fucking novel, have a good cry, then get back in the game.

It's the loss of the popular vote that I find so hideous, and so destructive of faith in democracy. To be British and looking at these results -- well I feel like the tin can that's been tied to the tail of an angry cat.

The one thing that gave me some small bit of hope for the future was seeing Barack Obama talk (he gave a short interview on CNN in the wee hours). He seemed to me to have many of Clinton's best qualities (a razor sharp brain, ability to connect) together with a degree of dignity and humility that Clinton never had. I hope and believe that he's going to be President one day, and that in contrast to the current jerk, he's genuinely going to be a uniter, not a divider.

Last night (more accurately, around 5am this morning when I was finally able to sleep), I was eyeing Canada and NZ. This morning, I feel committed to living vividly, flamboyantly, and flagrantly up to our ideals. To rowing in the opposite direction through sheer force of refusing to accept a change in lifestyle and by disseminating the counter-opinion by any and all media necessary. By fighting every neo-con vote to come and speaking out against every executive decision and appointment. Because we don't have to slide into the gloom as other nations from way-before-Rome to now have done, because we have so many more tools to hand, and so much more information, and so many more ways to organise people and information and spread both far and wide.

And, I'm still waiting on Ohio.

I've had my head between my knees, feeling such a fool for letting my hopes up yesterday. But the best response to this so far was posted by Fred Clark at Slacktivist last Saturday:

What if Bush wins (or, you know, gets reappointed)?

I will take comfort and inspiration from "the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives," as recounted in Jeremiah chapter 29:

Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. ... Increase in number there; do not decrease. Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper. ...

Yes, this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have. They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," declares the Lord. ... "For I know the plans I have for you ... plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Dig in and plan for the long-term. Plant gardens. Plant trees. Pray for the peace of the city. Increase in number.

He also said to work to take back the Congress in '06, but I'm not there at this point.

Kerry is conceding at 1 pm today. I am very discusted with my country right now.

I'm wondering where the Nader vote went. He got more than 3 million less this time. I don't think he was hurting the Dems like they claimed. It'd be interesting to see where those votes really went. Anyone with some perspective on this?

Mary Kay put in a solid 18-hour day yesterday for Election Protection in Phoenix -- starting at 5:30 in the morning before the polls opened, and ending up helping process the backlog of people in line when the polls closed until somewhere around 11:30 pm. I got to give her her first news on the results when she called me as she and Kate Yule were driving back to their hotel. Neither of them could think of sufficiently vile curse words.

I don't know when she'll be in shape to comment here -- maybe tonight, maybe much later. It's hit her all the harder since she fought as hard as she could, and did an enormous amount of work, and it made no difference in the end. (I've already told her "yes, it did make a difference," but it's a hard case to make). I do know she wondered specifically if this would make PNH reconsider his optimism about the American people....

As for me, well, I find it hard to believe the worst will happen (other than on the Supreme Court) but I've been wrong before...

I'm trying to find a song for comfort, but the best I can do is a bit of The Quest:

Oh, dark and deep was their van
That mocked my battle-cry
I could not miss my man
But I could not carry by.

Utterly whelmed was I
Flung under, horse and all
Merrily borne, the bugle horn
Answered the Warder's call

And here is my lance to mend
Here is my horse to be shot
Oh, yes, they were strong
The fight was long
But I paid as good as I got.

I've been spending the morning looking at web pages for Iceland, trying to find job listings, but my thanks to those of you who encourage digging in and keeping up the fight. Fight bad information with good information and hope for the future.

And wait on Ohio.

Don't mourn, organize.

The DCCC might be a good place to start.

I must confess that the two worst things about this are 1) The Bush supporters I know are absolutely the biggest dumbbunnies in the wide world 2) Our party failed to reach the kids.

I am so low...

The one promise I have extracted from those who will live after me is this: I want no one to stand over my corpse and say that I am better off dead - because that would be a damned lie!

You're always better off living - 'cause you can still fight!

oh well. my bad.

I thik I'll go cry now.

Being as I am a Red Sox fan, I can't help but paraphrase Bart Giamatti on the subject of failure:

"Fenway Park is the place to understand Calvinism in America, to learn that people sometimes fail and that failure can build character."

Next time elections roll around, we'll be quite the bunch of characters.

There is nothing foolish about hope. Hope is the strength to do what is right, whether it succeeds or fails.

We've known all along that the next four years are going to be tough. The election isn't over yet. If Kerry wins, it will be the first step in a long and very difficult process of cleaning up the mess and healing the nation. If Bush wins, it just puts things off for another four years and means we'll have a bigger mess. Either way, we need to get more Americans to join the reality-based community. We can't all move to Canada, and we can't count on some other country invading us to restore democracy. It's up to us.

The Democratic opposition ran a great campaign. It was an extraordinary effort by all who were involved, and however it turns out, we should feel no regrets.

Patrick, I voted for Kerry this time out, rather than sticking to my luxuriously idealistic guns: the first Democratic presidential candidate I've voted for since 1988. I did it mostly in spite of, yes, but I also had some strong brecauses, and one of those has been what you've said, and how you've said it.

For what it's worth, I don't feel defrauded.

I'm sitting here in the office, right now, and right now I'm trying to commiserate with my dayshift manager, and she's saying, for the first time in my life, I feel like the daily grind of living has kept me from what's important. For the first time, I really feel like I need to get out and get involved. It may be little; it may be late; but it's out there.

For what it's worth.

Fifty-five million people voted for Kerry But more people voted for Bush. And even more than that were satisfied enough with the status quo not to vote at all.
And that's a status quo that perpetrated Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.
Dave Johnson has a particularly cynical view this morning, that I'm rapidly growing to appreciate.

What *are* we optimistic about? Massachusetts voters didn't fall for anti-gay rhetoric, even though eleven other states did?

Henry - I have hope, but I don't think an Obama candidacy is the place to put it. In a country where people turned out in droves to prove how much they hate gays, how much chance does a black man have of winning national office?

This too shall pass.

My dad, who is so utterly a finance lawyer, says it like this:

"It'll either get better, or we'll all die."

The question is, which comes first.

Oh yeah, we can also feel good about Obama's election, but that was a given.

Any other good news?

Hope.

First the bad news. When I called my mother from London and she told me that Bush had won the popular vote, she added "And this confirms my suspicion that Americans are assholes." And this is my mother. No matter how hard I try to convince people that a good half of Americans are more horrified than we over here could ever possibly be, in the end that is how America looks today in the face of the world.

Now the good news. Well, sort of. What I wanted to say is: we never thought that democracy was magic, that it yields inevitably the best result. People, invested with the sacred duty to choose their own representative and leaders, can and do fuck up. As a matter of fact, they do that more often than not. It's not a good system - it's just the least bad we could invent. It is still the only one that leaves us some hope. We knew that going in, didn't we? And the fact that you work hard and hope does not give you any kind of compensatory guarantee. We are part of the reality-based community, and we know, we have always known, that reality hurts. We will not abdicate it for that.

And: I spent the several hours flying and waiting reading an extremely interesting, now terribly relevant, and surprisingly upbeat book, which has very interesting things to say about why people so consistently vote to shoot themselves in the foot: What's the matter with Kansas? by Tommy Franks. It argues, after having amply discussed why the right has managed to hitchike the working-class vote, that if the right won it the left lost it, and it would do well to reflect on that.

And: this morning, I still think my American friends are the best people in the world. Thank you for trying. Keep trying. There is nothing else to do, really.

Patrick:

I am tired and scared, but then, I've been tired and scared for a while now. And because I am the parent of a 14 year old who is tired and scared for the first time, I could not afford to despair this morning. Just getting the girl out the door and off to school required that I remind her (and myself) that we came =close,= and that our job now is to constitute part of the Loyal Opposition--loyal to our idea of what this country is and can and should be.

I thought, 30+ years ago when Nixon was re-elected, that my country could not possibly have been so stupid, that the election was The End of All Life as We Know It. Since then I've thought the same thing several times. This was Julie's first time thinking the same thoughts, so I had to remind her, and doing so helped me remind myself.

Despair is a perfectly reasonable short-term response to the outcome of this election. Despair is a perfectly reasonable short-term response to this President. And you and Teresa have cheered me and given me courage in the last couple of weeks when I felt like lying down and letting the snow cover me... You're entitled to some rest. But then (I'm sorry, but it's true) you're going to get back up and start trudging along. I don't think either of you have it in you to give up, and in a sense I'm trying to live up to you.

So I'm going to take my laptop out and work on the book, and make dinner for my kids, and keep in touch with all the like-minded people I know, and try to find ways to help turn my country back in the direction of honor and sanity. I just can't think of doing anything else.

Patrick, I feel your pain, truly. I look at GWB and the Republican party, and I wonder what it is Republicans see that I can't, I wonder what is so good about right-wing theocracy, about legislating against same-sex civil marriage, about condoning those who believe abortion is murder and that abortion doctors are therefore fair game, and so on. Who believe that arbitrarily invading countries somehow makes them safer. And I look at my country, and at Tony Blair, happily trotting along in GWB's wake, tail wagging as he follows his friend, and I fear for my country too.

Mourn today – because it's right to mourn for the loss of a chance to do things differently, and make a better world; I mourn too, for though it wasn't my country's election, the result affects all of us. But then, tomorrow get up and start fighting again, like we've fought before, you, me, everyone, to make it better next time.

But today, dear god, I'm angry.

Patrick, I just got off the phone talking to Ken MacLeod (in office hours, yet, but I needed to hear a friendly voice today) and he said he'd been reading your blog.

It reminded me of four years ago when I scolded you not to be such a drama queen about the 2000 election, and sure Bush was a vicious dummy, but it would only be four years and how bad could that be? You could look forward to electing a healing Democratic president one fine November day in 2004.

I feel like such a prick today.

I certainly don't feel like telling anybody to buck up; I was bending poor Ken's ear about the things I was pondering doing next, starting with cancelling any planned trips across the Atlantic, through conspicuously boycotting all goods or services with any Stars-and-Stripes style branding, to whatever I could do to distance my country from the USA over the next few years and nestle it closer to the bosom of the EU.

Maybe it's too early to be talking like this, and I'll have changed my mind in another few hours, but right now I can't see any interpretation of the result that comforts me. Either the vote is fake, and America is no longer a democracy, or it's real, and Americans democratically chose the architects of Abu Ghraib.

Oh, and Kip, I keep saying this, but the original "City On a Hill" sermon by John Winthrop wasn't a boast. It was a warning.

I freely admit that the invalidation of Article IV, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is more daunting than the election results--especially as I doubt I'm the only one who sees cause and effect there (OH, MO, especially).

I spoke with about 100-150 people in Ohio yesterday. Most had already voted; no one--and I asked, even though it wasn't on the script--said they had had trouble at the polls.

We got out the vote haphazardly. The people who took over my ancestral party and turned it into what it is got out the vote based on over twenty years of organization and techniques leveraged from self-haters such as Terry Dolan. This is not necessarily a permanent gap.

Quo Vadimus? The real issues and the real scandals are still there, and 2006 is only a recession away. The battle is lost, not the war.

On the brighter side, we've picked up two (and possibly four) seats in the NY Senate, and widened even further our domination of the Assembly. Between Spitzer and Chucky, we've got an embarrasment of riches for Governor in two, and Mike's willing submission to the much-hated-by-NYC Bush is NOT going to help him next year.

Is this what it was like, living in Richmond ca. 1860?

I know that, Del, but that's not how it's used now. We are the Shining City on the Hill™, and everybody except us can see that the hill is a dung heap and the pavement is made of skulls.

But how about the future? Sarah's two now. Should we raise her to be selfish, ignorant and contemptuous of others, so she can fit in this brave new world?

Yesterday, I stopped the car to give money to a Salvation Army bellringer, and Sarah said, "I no like help the poor." If I can just keep her at this level, she'll be just fine!

This morning I felt guilty for bringing her to this country. First time that's happened.

*sigh* I remember 2000, when Bush's appointment was controversial but ultimately seemed like a relatively harmless idiot with a reasonably competent staff being put in power. Now I worry about what this maniac has in store for the world and who in hades actually voted for him...

Hi Patrick. Today it sucks to be us. As I told Jordin I fought as hard as I could and it didn't make a dammed bit of difference. I have no idea when or how I'll get over this. With those people appointing the next 4 (at least) Supreme Court justices I see no way out of this hole.

I've only scanned the comments above, but someone said something about the kids. We did in fact reach the kids. Some of those kids I helped process through the polls last night stood in line nearly 5 hours to vote. It was obvious that most of them were voting Democrat. (We had to tell them to take off their Kerry buttons inside the poll.) I haven't checked out enough news this morning and was incommunicado inside the polls from 6-midnight yesterday so I don't have any firm ideas who we didn't get, but probably mostly people like my family who just don't want believe, or don't dare believe what we've been telling them.

I gotta go to the airport now. Apparently I'm still feeling at least defiant as I've got my W with the red circle and slash button smack in the middle of my chest. (Thanks Patrick) Y'all be good.

MKK

All I can think, over and over again:

It's morning in Mordor.

Xopher,
YOU want to move to Canada? Where are WE Canucks going to move to?

I live in Wisconsin, and I've spent months working my ass off here. And it looks like we carried the state, which was about all we could hope to do (though at the tail end of the evening they had us die-hards calling Nevada voters). And I feel like an idiot because I let myself believe we were going to win, because it wasn't till after midnight that reality started closing in. And all I can think is, was there more that I could have done?

How I can I raise my children in a country that would elect this man, and elect him by such a margin (tinfoil-hat theories aside)?

Don't mourn, organize, people say. But today my eyes are filled with tears. Maybe tomorrow or the next day I'll be able to think about regrouping.

The more I see, the more I am reminded of one of Jonn Brunner's lesser apocalyptic novels, "The Stone That Never Came Down". The world was in terrible shape: political unrest throughout Europe, the Troubles in Belfast had migrated to striking workers in Glasgow, bands of Christian hoodlums burning gays, with an extremely conservative theocratic movement ("Moral Pollution") supporting a corrupt autocratic British government. Its almost a complete prediction of the current state of affairs.

Unfortunately, as with most of Brunner's apocalyptic novels, the SF element that resolves the crisis (VC, a brain-enhancing drug) isn't on the horizon. However, the 'net that was the center point of "Shockwave Rider" may serve as a replacement.

Way up near the top of this thread, Laura Roberts reminded us of this quote:

"Heart shall be bolder, harder be purpose, more proud the spirit as our strength lessens."

I'm sure Graydon can provide the original Anglo-Saxon, but I think I've found my new *.sig line and my mantra to get me through this dark time.

I've been running with the Ben Franklin quote about people who give up necessary liberty for the sake of safety deserving neither as my personal *.sig line ever since 9/11/01, but with the election results confirming that the majority of my fellow citizens who bothered to vote are willing to do just that, I think it's time for a change.

See you on the barricades, after we've done some necessary grieving.

I was reading Meteor Blades's comments on Kos (also picked up on SmirkingChimp), and the 560-plus comments it generated. It's worth the time to read.

One observation MB made keeps sticking with me: That divisions in America have been redefined along secular vs. religious lines. And that 51% of the voting citizenry are willing to line up behind a leader who trumpets and champions a faith-based interpretation of reality.

MB noted that the Democratic Party as currently constituted should go the way of the Dodo. It's worth noting that the Republican Party has mutated; the GOP isn't the party of Eisenhower, or Nixon, any longer -- one reason why so many Republican politicians who came up through the 'old' GOP are very uneasy with Bush.

The GOP claims to represent traditional Republican values -- fiscal conservatisim, "small government", self-reliance over social programs and lower taxes. The 'new' GOP is in fact a marriage between the christian Right (They're 'christian' with a small "c"), NAC-style neoconservatives, and corporate interests who naturally gravitate towards anyone whos behavior promises more expansion and more profit (as of the moment, the DJIA has shot up 150 points on news of Bush's "victory").

Through Ralph Reed and Karl Rove, they've discovered how to exploit the divisions in America for their political benefit -- religious vs. secular, conservative vs. liberal, patriotic vs. 'radical'.

The idea is to walk a path to power, and maintain it, by whatever means necessary. Their agenda has nothing to do with "traditional" Republicanisim: They want to reshape American culture at home, and project it abroad. That culture is fundimentalist, a religious-neocon oligarchy, and it's mission is to "spread freedom" -- as defined by the Reeds, the Robertsons and Roves, the Scalias and Thomases, the Wolfowitzes and Perles.

These people possess an arrogance whose blindness to its own evil is stupefying. They are the people who will shape our immediate future, and that of our children, our friends, our families, and people in other countries who have the same aspirations and desire to live peacefully as we do -- but who may be sacrificed in the name of "freedom". This is what it's like to live through history as opposed to reading about it. (I'm writing this as I hear of Kerry's concession, so this isn't my most hopeful moment.)

America has become something I no longer recognize.

Meteor Blades wrote about making a radical change in the Democratic Party's leadership in order to challenge the christian Right-Neocons. I don't know if that will be enough. I don't believe people in America understand what just happened with this election; what kind of pact with the devil the people voting for Bush who "just weren't sure" about Kerry have made.

On a political level, the christian-Neocons have created a new paradigim in how they've appealed to people to support them -- and that these same principled born-agains will do anything -- lie, steal, cheat, threaten -- to win, because they believe with a perfect faith that god wants them to. It's why Bush never admits to making a mistake -- because his actions are divinely inspired, and god makes no errors. Nor do the people he works through.

Trying to appeal to American voters through traditional liberal currents of thought (social programs, humanist perspectives, support for labor, progressive ideals) when faced with religious fundimentalisim and the tactics of fascists may not work.

There's a line from a Leonard Cohen poem that's going around and around in my head: "I believe in a perfect faith in all the history I remember, but it's getting harder and harder to remember much history." I don't know what will happen, or what we will do, but the old perspectives and reliance on an innate goodness in human nature may not be givens any longer.

Sympathies, Patrick.

So Chthulhu takes his seat in the Lincoln Memorial, and we all get to be part of a political experiment to prove the truth of Lord Acton's axiom.

Mencken said it well:

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."

Bend over, America.

Patrick, I hope you will read what amp said. It made me feel better.

I know you've been fighting longer than I have, and I understand how you feel and why you feel that way. You can retire from the fray with honour if you choose to, though I hope you will feel differently in a little while. In any case, please know that I am more angry than sad, and I have only just begun to fight.

I could throw my hands up in the air and say to hell with it. But the problem with that is it will only make me more miserable. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care anymore. So, I can either let myself slide into inaction, indifference, silence, and hope to numb myself to the self-inflicted pain that would surely follow. Or I can be true to what's important to me in the face of defeat. Personally, I'd rather admit I care and scream the truth than silence myself and pretend it doesn't matter.

I have no optimistic words to offer. Only the choice between hard honest work and easy self-deception. One offers the pain of defeat and the other offers the pain of lying to myself.

But then, the operators manual for democracy never said it was going to be easy or painless.

And I draw your attention to Josh Marshall's comments, who I think "gets it".

Okay, guys. Have your moment of loss and depression. It's cathartic. You'll feel better.

When you're done, the US will still be here. You can give it to the people you fear or you can fight for it to be what you want it to be.

No skipping over the border to Canada. No languid wallows in pity. No throwing up of hands, saying "well, I did what I could," and holing yourself up in your study. This is officially a long-term project.

There are some luxuries you can no longer afford. Despair is one of them. Mourn, quickly, and then for God's sake get a grip.

It's time to start working like you are in the early days of a better nation. Because, if you do, they will be.

I got plenty of despair, but I got nothing to add to the despair
you-all have got.

Here's what I've got beyond that. (Not much beyond, but...)

I've gotten through the past four years thinking "That isn't *me*." It
was a bunch of power-mad venal fools, and yes, they had a lot of
Americans on their side, but they didn't have *America* on their side,
really.

Now they unquestionably have America. I don't have the luxury of
saying my elected government doesn't represent me. Everything we do
from here on out is being done in my name. Last week I could deny it
-- maybe that was self-delusion -- but I can't now. We're all the
torturers and liars and defrauders now. Oh, and gay-bashers.

This is what I keep telling myself I can't forget. I know I am also a
fundamentally lazy shit, and I don't know what I will wind up doing
about it. I *do* know what I'll be if I do nothing.

(I'd say I'm not in a good state to decide what to do -- all I *want*
to do is curl up and play video games -- but that's laziness, not
burned-out-ness.)

Patrick, I started writing something earlier and could not get through at "preview" so if it shows up at some point, please delete it?
Please bear with me, because I have to tell this to someone. I went to bed last night and dreamed that I was standing in the middle of a great ruined city; and I was crying for all that was lost. And I heard a voice that said, quietly and sadly, "quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat".
I've had the jimjams and the jeebies all day...until I read some of the comments in this thread. There are babies being born, and gardens being planted, and peaceful revolutions being planned. It might just be a great time to be alive.
And another thing. Take it from someone who's lost a whole country already (or gave it up, but the effect is the same): at the worst of times, it's the people that matter. What was that line in Barrayar?: My nation is not a place, it's the people. WE ARE A NATION. ALL OF US, TOGETHER. Don't forget that, please.

Brace yourselves:
Bill Bennett is calling the election results a mandate for Bush to pursue the culture war.* :(

One has bouts of numbness.

One has bouts of anger.

One has bouts of Schadenfreude. ("I can't wait till everything falls down around their ears. Let me live long enough to see them realize they've been dealing with the devil.")

One has bouts of gallows humor. ("Hey, so this is how we get all those science fiction futures where the U.S. has broken into a dozen grotty banana republics!")

One has bouts of sympathy for those who, one way or another, will be destroyed by this.

One has more bouts of numbness.

But let me say, as a Canadian and (perhaps) a representative of the non-U.S. world, we still know that Bush isn't America's whole story. We know the U.S. isn't entirely mad, or stupid, or blind, or any of the other easy accusations that sometimes spring to mind. It just had a stroke in one hemisphere of its brain; the other hemisphere (the strong logical hemisphere) is still working and will someday learn to compensate for the stroke's damage.

At the risk of being glib, maybe the lesson is that hope shouldn't be "Tomorrow will fix everything." Hope can only be "Today we'll fix a little."

But some todays are harder than others.

I'm buying a bunch of liquor and casino stock.

On bad days, I'm going to picture Bill Bennet sitting on a stool in a smoky indian casino, slamming down complimentary warm beers and shoving $20 bills into a slot machine, thus earning me money.

For circuses and bread
the population has been led
the TV network known as "Fox"
claims real life is on the box
They do not want to have to think
and do not know how close the brink
the chains they forge, each heavy link
they bring us all disaster

Their eyes are closed
They will not heed
The cries of fear
The cries of need
the world divided,
us and them
a simple world
they can condemn

"We are a people under God"
but this, all know, is just facade
They do not love, save their own group
to help another, would not stoop
"We won the vote, democracy"
"imposing our theocracy"
"allows us our hypocrisy"
which history calls "facist"

Their eyes are closed
They will not heed
The cries of fear
The cries of need
the world divided,
us and them
a simple world
they can condemn

This leads, as history has shown
to acts, which later, all bemoan
And they cannot the slide conceive,
the future where all children grieve
But still the day will come at last
When others will this crew surpass
leaving the sins that they amass
behind and then forgotten

November 3, 2004

John Scalzi, you are my fucking hero.

If John Kerry was the last best hope for the Republic, the only thing between us and ruin, then maybe it wasn't worth saving in the first place. I don't believe that, though. And neither do you.

This is not The End. This isn't even the beginning of the end. This is a setback and a loss and a terrible disappointment. But until they actually put me in the oven, I intend to live as though this is my goddamn country too. It still is, last time I looked. "The days have gone down in the West," but there are a lot of battles still worth fighting.

Yes, a majority of Americans are ignorant, or misguided, or scared, or just plain dumb - a pretty narrow majority. Remember, all you who have spent the last four years being firebrands and rabble-rousers and beacons of progressive thought: nearly half the country was with you last night. Don't you fucking dare turn your back on them now. It wasn't enough to win, but I bet it's enough to do something else, now. This is a smart bunch. I bet someone can think of something.

Remember, America's had empire before. We beat them back then, and we didn't even have the internet. We can do it again. "Tell it to Vaclav Havel," indeed.

Forth Eorlingas! Death! Death! Death! Death! Death!

Here's the way I feel: I wasn't expecting Kerry to save us. He had bought into way too much of the Rovian discourse. What I was hoping is it would end some of the Bush administration's worst excesses. I wasn't hoping for much else. OK, so that isn't going to happen. And Bush is now nolonger running for re-election, so probably the gloves will come off.

The Democratic party is much healthier than it was four years ago. Bush squeaked through with a slight majority under circumstances in which he had a huge advantage. Bush winning is just as much of a disaster as it seems, but I just don't feel depressed about it. Bush was not able to sell his political agenda to many more than bought into it four years ago.

The Democratic party needs to take its lemons and find out how to make lemonade. As for the rest of us, we need to carry on with the good work we've been doing. It was very close. We almost pulled it off.

America voted for Bush because electing Carry would be an admission of guilt - guilt for more than 15,000 civlian deaths in Iraq, for the American and Iraqi soldiers who have been sacrificed for Bush's politic games, for the destruction of world peace. They are willing to accept reduced freedom and a staggering deficit that will haunt this country's economy for decades. All for the illusion of safety.

I expect the actual price we pay for this blindness will be terrible and bloody. The lone act of terrorism at the World Trade Center will become just one of many as the victims of our Nation's greed and brutality fight back in the only way they can. And sadly, we will deserve all of it.

On the other hand, I just had a thought. With Bush still around, there's a chance of finally impeaching the bastard. Good and hard.

a majority of Americans are ignorant, or misguided, or scared, or just plain dumb - a pretty narrow majority

Dan: yes, and three out of those four afflictions can be cured, and I am not sure I believe in "dumb". Anyone can learn; well OK, nearly anyone.

See the fat guy on that other barricade over there? That's me.

I'm listening to a song, the title of which seems appropriate:

"If I'm Gonna Sink (I Might As Well Go to the Bottom)"

(Performed by Neko Case, from Touch My Heart - A Tribute to Johnny Paycheck)

I'm not sure if it describes my feelings right now, or the motivation of the electorate yesterday.

Andrew Plotkin spake:

I've gotten through the past four years thinking "That isn't *me*." It
was a bunch of power-mad venal fools, and yes, they had a lot of
Americans on their side, but they didn't have *America* on their side,
really.

They still don't. They have half of America on their side. Much better odds.

I don't have the luxury of saying my elected government doesn't represent me.

Why not? If you voted, and voted for anyone but Bush, they don't represent you. They will claim to represent you, to be sure--they've been claiming that for four years now--but you're the one who decides whether they actually do represent you.

Everything we do from here on out is being done in my name.

If you voted, and voted for anyone but Bush, without your permission.

Last week I could deny it -- maybe that was self-delusion -- but I can't now. We're all the torturers and liars and defrauders now. Oh, and gay-bashers.

Not me. Bush and his flunkies are, but not me. Half of America may be, but I'm not in that half.

(I'd say I'm not in a good state to decide what to do -- all I *want*
to do is curl up and play video games -- but that's laziness, not
burned-out-ness.)

Denial is a normal part of coping with loss. Don't kick yourself for going through it.

I don't think anyone is in a good state to decide what to do just now; the calamity is too fresh, and the important battles aren't yet clear (nor even, in some cases, who the enemy is). Mourning remains to be done. For now, I think Teresa's "Last Days" advice remains valid: Be of good cheer, hard though that is just now. The election's (mostly) over. The fight isn't. It's just moved to another battlefield. And keep in mind, point 5:

Bush & Co. are really good at making people feel crushed. If you feel crushed, it isn’t because the world is an awful place; it’s because you’re picking up Radio Bush. It’s temporary.

It's just that "temporary" is going to be a lot longer than people had hoped.

John Scalzi - thank you! That was the most uplifting thing i've read since the election; a great gift of a vision of hope for which I am deeply indebted.

Patrick - i've spent most of the morning despairing in one form or another, in some sense spoiling for a fight just to get the energy out. We lost, and we lost badly, and it's hard for me to summon the courage to believe that we'll ever win again. And yet, at the same time ... if communism could fall, and apartheid, then this too can pass. If we make it happen.

Now they unquestionably have America. I don't have the luxury of
saying my elected government doesn't represent me. Everything we do
from here on out is being done in my name. Last week I could deny it
-- maybe that was self-delusion -- but I can't now. We're all the
torturers and liars and defrauders now. Oh, and gay-bashers.

I completely disagree. Or at least, I don't think that is any more true today than it was yesterday. It's not this one election that makes the difference.

This elected government does not represent me. This stuff is not being done in my name. Yes, I benefit from living in America (until my luck runs out.) But I'm not a torturer or a gay-basher, and I try not to lie.

We've often been told that "America is the greatest country in the world." For some people, that seems to mean, "We're the greatest because we can kick anybody else's butt."

Other people seem to think that America is somehow more democratic than other countries, that we took out the patent on "freedom" and "liberty." How many people on this board believe that? It's not true. It never was.

We've also been told, "If you don't like it, leave." If you have any criticisms, leave. If you dare to state that America is not perfect, get out. People say that as if they have the right to decide who stays and who leaves. As if they own this country. Personally, I don't think they do.

Do we need to believe that we live in the greatest country on earth? Do we need to believe that Americans are somehow special? Is that really helpful right now?

Or can we just be ordinary people, who make mistakes, and keep trying to do the right thing?

The sad fact is that everyone who voted for Bush believed they were doing the right thing. Yes, they were stupid, crazy, lied to, whatever. Yes, it sucks that we have to share a country with them (until we secede?) But that's the problem with democracy, as someone pointed out above.

All you can do is whatever seems right to you. The only path you can walk is the one right in front of you. Dreams of perfection only get in the way.

"And yet I swear this oath--America will be!"

Anna Feruglio Dal Dan wrote: "What's the matter with Kansas? by Tommy Franks."

Tommy Franks is Bush's pet general who ran the Iraq invasion.

I think you mean Thomas Frank.

Dreams of perfection only get in the way.

I respectfully disagree. My dreams light my way.

Patrick, I don't have a lot of solace to offer you. Not today.

I worked against Nixon, and didn't think things could get worse.
I worked against Reagan, and never imagined that they could ever find a less qualified candidate.
Then they came up with Bush - and when he didn't win, they short-circuited the Constitution to install him anyway.
Now the electorate, in its wisdom, has ratified all of the disasters that Bush has inflicted upon us over the last four years.

As SF fans, we have the unfortunate ability to extrapolate from current trends. Despite that, we still have to carry on, and to carry on with the belief that the Republic will survive.

The exit polls (there's a long piece in today's Washington Post) carry a clue about what happened to us:

8% of the voters said that "Religious Faith" was the most important attribute for their candidate - - and they voted 91:8 Bush:Kerry.

7% of the voters said that "intelligence" was the most important attribute - - and they voted 91:8 for Kerry over Bush.

It's a neat bit of symmetry that would too pat for a fictional telling. But I think this explains a lot of what happened. Our job will be to encourage a political culture that actually values intelligence in its leaders, and it's going to be the work of a lifetime.

And the forum you provide here is a start. So thank you.

Patrick, you're tired. It's been a very emotional few months (/years), and today has been a crushing disappointment. So rest. Rest until you feel able. (And you will feel able, trust me.) Then take advantage of whatever opportunities will arise.

But until them, rest.

John Scalzi: thanks, I needed that.

I don't whether I'm living in Germany circa 1934 or the end of "I Claudius".

I'm depressed.

De-lurking and all those sort of things...

Patrick (I take the liberty to call you by your first name, that's the greatest sign of respect I can think of right now), just reading yours and Rivka's post almost had me cry, so I want you, and all the nice blog people who'll come here to know this: in these time of growing, mostly blind and ignorant, anti-americanism, we all need you.
For when people won't be swayed over by a valid, cold, argument, the warmth of human voices is enough to make them think, and when I hear my French colleagues around starting about "those stupid americans", when I hear my own African cousins perpetuate the fallacious myth of Bin Laden being a hero standing against American greed, I can bring them here and have them look and realise how much more there is to this land than what they've been led to think.
If good people like you give in to despair, now that those giving birth and breath to the cliche have won a batlle, however decisive it may seem, then all will be over, for it will really have become their America.

Every little star may think it is not much, lost in outer darkness, but it still is a sun for those who can get close enough.

Thanks for all you've done, and all you may still do.

PS: re-reading this, I feel awkward and out of place, but still I think I had to say it.

I was born and raised in Australia and was a draft-age student living in Sydney in 1972. In November, 1972, Richard Nixon was re-elected. Even in Australia, his re-election was a devastating blow.

Later that month, I was unlucky in the draft lottery, and realized I'd be in the next cohort drafted into the Australian army. I decided I'd had enough of Australia and its army and its right-wing government, and arranged to move to Canada.

November 1972 was a far darker month than November 2004 is likely to be, at least for me.

In December 1972, there was an Australian election. The good guys, astonishingly, won. Within two weeks, they announced that they were pulling the Aussie army out of Vietnam. I decided I wanted out anyway (and besides, the draft was still in place). I moved to Canada in March 1973, and literally while I was in transit the Australian draft was abolished. Had I stayed in Australia, I wouldn't have had to report.

Moving to Canada was the right thing to do. Sure, the "right" people won the 1972 Aussie election. But a large portion of the Australian population still supported the government that had wanted to draft me and send me to fight in a war I didn't agree with. I wanted nothing to do with those people.

I can't imagine living in the US right now, knowing that tens of millions of Americans have just voted for Bush. If I was living in the US today, I'd be making plans to leave. Who wants to live in the company of the people who just re-elected that president?

Sure, it makes sense to try to regain the House in 2006 and work towards electing someone sensible in 2008. Sort of. But, you know.... Richard Nixon left office in 1974, and the Democrats won the presidency in 1976. But by 1980, Ronald Reagan was president. The good guys' victories don't last very long. (And I was never comfortable with the notion of Carter as president anyway.)

I'm 50 years old. In those 50 years, there have been just 11 years where the US has had a president I'd be comfortable with: 1961-63 and 1993-2000. I don't like those odds too much.

(I have to admit that I've never actually had anyone I've voted for become Canadian prime minister. But I've never seen the equivalent of Nixon or Bush elected here either. Mulroney came close.)

If I was living in the US right now -- especially if I was in my 20s and could leave relatively easily -- I'd be outta there.

It worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

Madeleine, et al:

You're welcome. I know you'd do the same for me.

If I was living in the US right now ... I'd be outta there.

A young reaction to not getting what you want is to take your ball and go home (or run away from home, as the case may be). An older reaction would be to be to not get what you want and yet stay true to what you want.

Democracy as an evolutionary process can only survive if both winners and losers remain and work towards what they want.

Put another way, this is my country too, damnit!

Dreams of perfection only get in the way.

--I respectfully disagree. My dreams light my way.

Well, if perfection for you is something pleasant and attainable, rather than a stick to beat yourself with, then I am sincerely happy for you.

I didn't mean that dreams, period, get in the way. But my dreams tend to be about comfort and happiness, not perfection.

I feel like the Black Night in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. First, they cut off one arm, but we fight on. Then, they cut off the other arm, but continue kicking. Finally, we are nothing but a head, yelling, "Come back here, you coward," and getting the response, "What are you going to do, bleed on me?"

For all of you who've said, We'll make it through, we've been through this, that, and the other thing, and we made it through those, I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Each this, that, or the other caused profound changes, many of them very bad. Do you remeber a time before the War Against Some Drugs? Under Bush, do you really expect it to go away?

We fought for abortion rights, and got it, 40 years ago. Despite everything, we were never able to solidify it into a solid win, it's always been a fragile compromise. What happens when Bush appoints a very right-wing, "pro-life" justice? I'm not real sanguine. Likewise sodomy laws.

Meanwhile, Iraq is going to get more expensive, and more deadly. I figure there won't be a draft -- it'll get outsourced. Which makes it prohibitively expensive, but just remember, the deficit is our friend. *eye roll* By most standard evaluations, the US is in serious trouble. If they followed their own rules, the IMF wouldn't lend us money. It's not impossible that we could pull an Argentina. Read Paul Krugman.

In the last 20 years, I've lost so many civil rights I can't count them. Did we "get through" Reagan? Yes, but it cost. Clinton? Not too bad on the economy, but awful hard on civil rights. Bush, first 4 years? So much worse than I had imagined 4 years ago.

I said before the election, we have to fight, and if necessary, we need to learn to fight without hope. I stand by that. I have no hope, but for at least as long as I live here, I will fight. I just wish I was Vaclav Havel, because I don't know how much longer I can keep this up.\

It's going to get worse before it gets better. A lot depends on how much worse it gets. We've lost an arm, but we're still fighting. But if they cut off another arm, and a leg... I don't want to get to the point where the only thing we can do is bleed on them.

I'd like to add my bit of hero-worship, John Scalzi.

And denial is a real good tactic. It's a much less good strategy, and it's an absolutely TERRIBLE lifestyle.

Words do not exist to describe how bad it is as a foreign policy.

A young reaction to not getting what you want is to take your ball and go home (or run away from home, as the case may be). An older reaction would be to not get what you want and yet stay true to what you want.

There comes a time when you realize that you are never going to get what you want if you continue on your present course -- that your present situation provides no futures that you are willing to live. When you reach that realization, it is time to change your situation. You move, or change careers, or leave your spouse, or whatever.

Democracy as an evolutionary process can only survive if both winners and losers remain and work towards what they want.

But doesn't there come a time when you realize that the people you are sharing a democracy with want things that are such anathema to you that you need to find a place where you fit in better?

Put another way, this is my country too, damnit!

That's the key. I reached a point in 1972 where I realized "these are not my people -- I want nothing to do with them." At that point it was easy to let go. Let them have the country and do whatever they wanted with it. I wanted absolutely nothing to do with them.

I left in search of a place where I could feel safer and feel a bit less like an alien. I found it, sort of. (Too bad about the wretched weather here!)

Greg - You're from a Commonwealth country, so you have more mobility. I confess that I actually took a quick peek at the Irish immigration site, only to discover that I don't qualify as an Irish national because at least one parent has to gave been an Irish national before you are born. (My father would have qualified, as both his parents were Irish born.)

But, in the final analysis, I can't see myself emigrating unless I'm literally fleeing for my life. We Americans are stay-at-homes in that regard.

Still, it woud have been nice to have a green book with a harp on it to go along with the blue book with an eagle. Any EU gals out there looking for a marriage of convenience? ;-)

"And yet I swear this oath--America will be!"

Uh, will be what?

I'm probably demonstrating great ignorance, here. Presumably the quote marks mean that somebody famous said it.