Margaret ferch Llywelyn

- 1265

• Name	Margaret ferch Llywelyn  [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
  Gender	Female
  Death	1265  [7]
  Alternate death	Aft 1268  [8]
  Siblings	2 siblings
  + 1. Margaret ferch Llywelyn   d. 1265 ▻ John de Brewes ,  m. 1219 ;  Walter IV de Clifford ,  m. Bef 2 Nov 1234 + 2. Ellen   d. Aft Feb 1294 ▻ Donald of Mar + 3. Tegwared y Baiswen ap Llywelyn ab Iorwerth Drwyndwn ab Owain Gwybnedd ,   b. Abt 1200 ▻ Gwenllian ferch Ednyfed Fychan
  Person ID	I656	Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of AP, Ancestor of AW, Ancestor of DDB, Ancestor of DGH, Ancestor of DK, Ancestor of JMF, Ancestor of JTS, Ancestor of LD, Ancestor of LDN, Ancestor of LMW, Ancestor of TNH, Ancestor of TSW, Ancestor of TWK, Ancestor of UKL, Ancestor of WPF
  Last Modified	11 Dec 2023

  
  

  Father	Llywelyn Fawr ap Iorwerth,   b. Abt 1173   d. 11 Apr 1240, Aberconwy Abbey, Conwy, Wales (Age ~ 67 years)
  Mother	(One of the several mistresses of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth)
  Family ID	F1936	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  
  

  Family 1	John de Brewes,   b. Abt 1197, of Gower, Swansea, Wales d. Between 1231 and 1232 (Age ~ 34 years)
  Marriage	1219  [8, 9, 10]
  Children	+ 1. William de Brewes,   b. Abt 1224, of Bramber, Sussex, England d. 6 Jan 1291, Findon, Sussex, England (Age ~ 67 years) + 2. Richard de Brewes,   b. Bef 1232, of Stinton in Salle and Heydon, Norfolk, England d. Bef 18 Jun 1292 (Age < 60 years)
  Family ID	F2145	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart
  Last Modified	30 Apr 2018

  
  

  Family 2	Walter IV de Clifford,   b. of Clifford, Herefordshire, England d. Bef 23 Dec 1263
  Marriage	Bef 2 Nov 1234  [4, 8, 11, 12]
  Children	+ 1. Maud de Clifford,   b. of Clifford, Herefordshire, England d. Between 1282 and 1285
  Family ID	F3791	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart
  Last Modified	15 Apr 2018

  
  

• Notes

  Also known as Marared; Margred; Margaret of Wales; Margaret of North Wales. Notes on the parentage of Gwladus and Margaret, daughters of Llwelyn ap Fawr: Complete Peerage (IX: 276) and Royal Ancestry both give Gwladus as a daughter of Joan of England. Royal Ancestry gives Margaret as an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography says that Joan was "probably" the mother of Gwladus and Margaret. In The American Genealogist 41:99 (1965), Walter Lee Sheppard notes that "DNB's account gives Joan only the son David with Helen as probable. Lloyd's History of Wales [...] includes a chart so drawn as to make the maternity of the daughters questionable, and omits Angharad altogether. Prof. Thomas Jones Pierce in his article on Joan in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography names David, but does not mention the daughters at all; but then his cited sources are ony DNB and Lloyd's History of Wales in earlier editions. The correspondence of the writer with Sir Anthony Richard Wagner, Garter Principal King of Arms, however, indicates that all these daughters, with the exception of Gwladys, have been accepted by Major Francis Jones, best known authority on Welsh pedigrees, and based on British Museum Manuscript Add. 15041, on folio 12a, which shows Joan to be mother of David, Gwenlian, Angharad, and Margaret. It is interesting to note that [Complete Peerage] 9:276, under Mortimer of Wigmore, identifies Gwaldys as Joan's daughter." Later in the same publication, TAG 41:22, Sheppard provides an addendum, first quoting a letter from E. D. Jones, Librarian of the National Library of Wales: "Robert Vaughan of Hengwrt, a reliable seventeenth century authority, makes Gwladys full sister to Gruffydd, therefore the daughter of Tangwystl. He makes Gwenllian, Angharad and Marred (Margaret) to be daughters of Joan. I am inclined to accept the view that Gwladys Ddu was the daughter of Tangwystl, but in the absence of contemporary records it is not wise to be too dogmatic." Sheppard then continues: "Sir Anthony Richard Wagner KCVO, Garter Principal King of Arms, in a letter to the writer dated 24 Sept. 1964, states that he would accept Margaret as Joan's daughter and, presumably, the other daughters, except Gwladys. He refers to Major Francis Jones and the previously cited British Museum Additional MS, which shows Joan to be mother of David, and points out that the chronology also fits." Peter C. Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies (1974-83, searchable here; use the search term "Gruffudd ap Cynan 04"), gives Tangwystl as the mother of Gwladus and Joan as the probable mother of Margaret. William Addams Reitwiesner's "The Children of Joan, Princess of North Wales," in The Genealogist 1:80, Spring 1980, argues that we have no certain basis for regarding Joan as the mother of any of Llywelyn's daughters. On 9 April 1999, Douglas Richardson posted the following to SGM: "As for the Welsh tradition that any son, legitimate or otherwise, could make a claim to succeed Llywelyn, you may recall that Llywelyn and his son, David, went out of their way to have David recognized as Llywelyn's sole heir, to the exclusion of Llywelyn's illegitimate sons. To accomplish this, they had Llywelyn's wife, Joan, legitimized. The legitimization of Joan was no small feat seeing she was surely born out of wedlock to King John's mistress. Also, they sent David to England to be recognized as Llywelyn's sole heir by the English overlord, David's own uncle, King Henry III. Interestingly, the records of this trip show that David was accompanied by none other than his sister, Gladys. Due to the nature of this trip, it seems odd that Gladys would accompany David on this trip, UNLESS she too was a legitimate child of Llywelyn and Joan. These two pieces of evidence convince me that Gladys was legitimate."

  
  

• Sources

  [S128] The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant ed. Vicary Gibbs, H. A. Doubleday, Duncan Warrand, Howard de Walden, Geoffrey H. White and R. S. Lea. 2nd edition. 14 volumes (1-13, but volume 12 spanned two books), London, The St. Catherine Press, 1910-1959. Volume 14, "Addenda & Corrigenda," ed. Peter W. Hammond, Gloucestershire, Sutton Publishing, 1998. [S271] Peter Stewart, 15 Apr 2020, post to soc.genealogy.medieval. [S977] The Blackmans of Knight's Creek: Ancestors and Descendants of George and Maria (Smith) Blackman by Henry James Young. Carlisle, Pennsylvania: 1980. [S1526] The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz, Wife of Reverend John Owsley, Generations 1-15, Fourth Preliminary Edition, by Ronny O. Bodine and Bro. Thomas Spalding, Jr. 2013. [S4384] George Eldridge, Hydrographer, and Eliza Jane His Wife: Their Ancestors and Their Descendants by Henry James Young. Carlisle, Pennsylvania: 1982. [S5877] F. N. Craig, "Whose Son Was Peter de Braose?" The New England Historical and Genealogical Register 150:315, 1996. [S839] William Addams Reitwiesner, "The Children of Joan, Princess of North Wales." The Genealogist 1:80, Spring 1980. [S142] Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson. Salt Lake City, 2013. [S145] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700 by Frederick Lewis Weis and Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. 8th edition, William R. Beall & Kaleen E. Beall, eds. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 2004, 2006, 2008. [S351] Walter Lee Sheppard, "Joan, Princess of Wales, Daughter of King John: Ancestress to Bulkeley, James, Mellowes, Welby, Whittingham, Haugh, and St. John-Whiting Families." The American Genealogist 35:29, 1959. [S839] William Addams Reitwiesner, "The Children of Joan, Princess of North Wales." The Genealogist 1:80, Spring 1980., "before 2 November 1232". [S351] Walter Lee Sheppard, "Joan, Princess of Wales, Daughter of King John: Ancestress to Bulkeley, James, Mellowes, Welby, Whittingham, Haugh, and St. John-Whiting Families." The American Genealogist 35:29, 1959., "after 1233".