Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Elizabeth de Clinton

Female - Aft 1399


Generations:      Standard    |    Vertical    |    Compact    |    Box    |    Text    |    Text+    |    Ahnentafel    |    Fan Chart    |    Media

Generation: 1

  1. 1.  Elizabeth de Clinton (daughter of William de Clinton and (Unknown wife or mistress of William de Clinton)); died after 1399.

    Family/Spouse: John Fitzwilliam. John (son of John Fitzwilliam and Joan Reresby) was born about Feb 1328 in of Sprotborough, Yorkshire, England; died before 19 Feb 1385 in Howden, Yorkshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

    Children:
    1. William Fitzwilliam was born in of Sprotborough, Yorkshire, England; died on 8 Apr 1398.

Generation: 2

  1. 2.  William de Clinton was born in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England (son of John de Clinton and Ida de Odingsells); died on 24 Aug 1354.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: 25 Aug 1354

    Notes:

    Earl of Huntingdon. Constable of Halton Castle, 1326; Chief Justice of Chester, 1330; Constable of Dover Castle and Warden of the Cinque Ports, 1330; Privy Councillor, 1333; Captain and Admiral of the Cinque Ports, 133-35; Captain and Admiral from the Thames to Portsmouth, 1340; Captain and Admiral of the West, 1341-42; Joint Warden of the Marches toward Scotland, 1342; Justice of the Forest South of Trent, 1343-45; Joint Warden in Kent, 1352.

    William married (Unknown wife or mistress of William de Clinton). [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 3.  (Unknown wife or mistress of William de Clinton)
    Children:
    1. 1. Elizabeth de Clinton died after 1399.


Generation: 3

  1. 4.  John de Clinton was born about 1258 in of Amington in Tamworth, Warwickshire, England (son of Thomas de Clinton and Maud Bracebridge); died in 1310.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Bef 7 Jan 1311

    Notes:

    Knight of the shire for Warwickshire, 1300; Constable of Wallingford Castle; Seneschal of Ponthieu.

    "John de Clinton, 1st Baron Clinton, so created according to later doctrine by writ of summons to Parliament 6 Feb 1298/9 (though never again thereafter); the peerage is heritable by heirs general, which can include females); Lord of the Manor of Maxstoke, Warwicks, through his wife; served Scottish and French Wars of Edward I, MP Warwicks 1300-01, Constable of Wallingford Castle 1308." [Burke's Peerage]

    "John de Clinton (son and heir of Thomas de Clinton by Maud, daughter of Sir Ralph Bracebridge of Kinsbury, co. Worcester), b. c 1258, d.1310, 1st Lord Clinton; m. c 1290 Ida, daughter of Sir William de Odingsells of Maxstoke by Ela, daughter of Walter Fitz Robert. She was 1st daughter, b. c 1270, living 1321." [Ancestral Roots]

    "John de Clinton, of Amington and Maxstoke, co. Warwick, 2nd but 1st surviving son and heir of Thomas de Clinton, of Amington (died v.p., before 1264), by Maud, daughter of Sir Ralph Bracebridge, of Kinsbury, co. Warwick, was born probably in 1258. He served, or was called upon to serve, in the Scottish and French wars. He was summoned to Parliament 6 February 1298/9 by writ directed Johanni de Clinton, whereby he is held to have become Lord Clinton. He was never again so summoned. He was 2 years later (12 March 1300/1), summoned with more than a thousand others cum equis et armis, being then denominated as of Maxstoke. He appears to have been Knight of the shire for co. Warwick 1300-01. Constable of Wallingford Castle, 1308." [Complete Peerage III:312-13]

    [footnote in CP to the above:] "The name is said to be from the manor of Glinton, afterwards Clinton, Northants near Market Deeping, but the Clintons were Oxfordshire people as early as 1230. In N. & Q., 7th Series, vol.viii, p. 486, it is stated that the 1st Earl of Lincoln 'obtained a grant of this very district of Glinton,' no doubt because of the similarity of name. Lower, in his Family Names, states it to be "from Glimpton, anciently written Clinton, co. Oxford. The founder of the family, Geoffrey de Clinton, Treasurer and Chamberlain to King Henry I, is said, by Ordericus (who, as a contemporary, probably can be trusted), to have been of mean parentage, though, according to some accounts he was of the noblest Norman extraction."

    John married Ida de Odingsells after 29 Sep 1286. Ida (daughter of William de Odingsells and Ela fitz Walter) was born about 1265 in of Solihull, Warwickshire, England; died after 1 Mar 1322. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 5.  Ida de Odingsells was born about 1265 in of Solihull, Warwickshire, England (daughter of William de Odingsells and Ela fitz Walter); died after 1 Mar 1322.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate birth: Abt 1270
    • Alternate death: Aft 8 Apr 1325

    Notes:

    Dugdale's Monasticon Anglicanum (1846) says that this Ida, widow of John de Clinton, was a prioress of Wroxhall and died in 1300. VCH Warwick 2 says that "Lady Isabel Clinton" succeeded Agnes as prioress of Wroxhall and died in 1325. The register of Thomas Cobham, Bishop of Worcester, 1317-1327, names "the noble lady Ysabella de Clyntone" as one of the several parties to a dispute he adjudicated at Wroxhall in 1323, but says nothing about Isabel becoming prioress, nor anything to identify her as the Ida who was the widow of John de Clinton who died in 1311. Additionally, while several records exist of the widow Ida in the 1320s, none of them make any reference to her being at Wroxhall, as a prioress or not. As John Watson pointed out on SGM, 8 and 9 Sep 2017, the likeliest solution to the above is that Dugdale was mistaken, and that the Clinton widow of Wroxhall priory was someone else, perhaps the otherwise-unknown widow of John de Clinton of Coleshill who died in 1316.

    "He [John Clinton] married, probably about 1290, Ida, sister and coheir of Edmund d'Odingsells, 1st daughter of William d'Odingsells, of Maxstoke, by Ela, daughter of Walter Fitz Robert, of Woodham Walter, with whom he acquired the Lordship and Castle of Maxstoke and other considerable possessions. He died late in 1310. His widow accompanied the Queen Consort to France in 1312-13. She, who was born about 1270, was living 1 March 1321/2." [Complete Peerage III:12-13]

    Douglas Richardson in a post to SGM, 27 Sep 2001, adds a first husband for Ida:

    From: Douglas Richardson (royalancestry@msn.com)
    Subject: Ida de Odingsells's Herdeburgh and Clinton Marriages: Further Evidence
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2001-09-27 08:31:32 PST

    Dear Newsgroup:

    Two days ago I announced the discovery that Ida de Odingsells, a descendant of King Henry II, married (lst) Roger de Herdeburgh (died c. 1284), by whom she had a daughter, Ela de Herdeburgh, who left many descendants. Previously Ida was only known to have had a marriage about 1290 to John de Clinton, 1st Lord Clinton (died c. 1310). Following my post, Rosie Bevan kindly provided a citation which confirmed that Roger de Herdeburgh's wife was in fact named Ida.

    Since my first post, I've located an informative article on the Herdeburgh family which appeared in Norfolk Archaeology, 30 (1952): 19-25. That article cites two documents, one dated 1284, the other 1286, which establish beyond doubt that Roger de Herdeburgh's wife was named Ida and that Ida, as Roger's widow, held the manor of Prilleston, Norfolk (a Herdeburgh manor) following his death. The article further states that Prilleston was eventually conveyed by Ida de Herdeburgh's heirs to her grandson, Walter de Hopton, Knt. This confirms that that Prilleston stayed in the family past Ida's death about 1328.

    As for other evidence that widow Ida de Herdeburgh married John de Clinton, I found elsewhere that Prilleston, Norfolk was held in 1316 by "Idonia de Clynton" [Reference: Feudal Aids, 6 (1920): 478]. Idonia de Clynton can be none other than Ida de Clinton, then a widow for the second time.

    Best always,
    Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    Children:
    1. 2. William de Clinton was born in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England; died on 24 Aug 1354.
    2. John de Clinton was born about 1300 in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England; died before 1 Apr 1335.


Generation: 4

  1. 8.  Thomas de Clinton was born in of Amington in Tamworth, Warwickshire, England (son of Thomas de Clinton and Mazera de Bisege); died before 1264.

    Thomas married Maud Bracebridge. Maud (daughter of Ralph Bracebridge) died after 1275. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 9.  Maud Bracebridge (daughter of Ralph Bracebridge); died after 1275.
    Children:
    1. 4. John de Clinton was born about 1258 in of Amington in Tamworth, Warwickshire, England; died in 1310.

  3. 10.  William de Odingsells was born in of Solihull, Warwickshire, England (son of William de Odingsells and Joan); died in 1294.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate birth: Abt 1235, of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England
    • Alternate death: 19 Apr 1295

    Notes:

    Justiciar of Ireland 19 Oct 1294 - 19 Apr 1295.

    William married Ela fitz Walter. Ela (daughter of Walter fitz Robert and Ida Longespée) died after 2 Jul 1295. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  4. 11.  Ela fitz Walter (daughter of Walter fitz Robert and Ida Longespée); died after 2 Jul 1295.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Aft 7 Jan 1311

    Notes:

    Also called Ela Fitz Robert.

    Incorrectly shown by Blomefield (citation details below) as a daughter of her grandparents, William Longespee and Ela of Salisbury.

    Children:
    1. 5. Ida de Odingsells was born about 1265 in of Solihull, Warwickshire, England; died after 1 Mar 1322.
    2. Margaret de Odingsells was born about 1277; died after 21 Apr 1330; was buried in Cogges, Oxfordshire, England.


Generation: 5

  1. 16.  Thomas de Clinton was born in of Coleshill, Warwickshire, England (son of Osbert de Clinton and Elysont); died before 12 Jan 1278.

    Thomas married Mazera de Bisege. Mazera (daughter of James de Bisege and Matilda) was born in of Baddesley, Warwickshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 17.  Mazera de Bisege was born in of Baddesley, Warwickshire, England (daughter of James de Bisege and Matilda).
    Children:
    1. 8. Thomas de Clinton was born in of Amington in Tamworth, Warwickshire, England; died before 1264.

  3. 18.  Ralph Bracebridge was born in of Kinsbury, Warwickshire, England.
    Children:
    1. 9. Maud Bracebridge died after 1275.

  4. 20.  William de Odingsells was born in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England (son of Hugh de Odingsells and Basilia de Limesi); died in 1271.

    Notes:

    Keeper of Montgomery Castle.

    William married Joan. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  5. 21.  Joan
    Children:
    1. 10. William de Odingsells was born in of Solihull, Warwickshire, England; died in 1294.

  6. 22.  Walter fitz Robert was born about 1219 in of Woodham Walter, Essex, England (son of Robert fitz Walter and Rohese); died before 10 Apr 1258.

    Walter married Ida Longespée. Ida (daughter of William I Longespée and Ela of Salisbury) died after 1261. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  7. 23.  Ida Longespée (daughter of William I Longespée and Ela of Salisbury); died after 1261.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Aft 11 May 1262

    Children:
    1. 11. Ela fitz Walter died after 2 Jul 1295.
    2. Robert Fitz Walter was born in 1247 in Henham, Essex, England; died on 18 Jan 1326.


Generation: 6

  1. 32.  Osbert de Clinton was born in of Coleshill, Warwickshire, England (son of Osbert de Clinton and Margaret de Hatton); died before 1232.

    Osbert married Elysont. Elysont died after 1231. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 33.  Elysont died after 1231.
    Children:
    1. 16. Thomas de Clinton was born in of Coleshill, Warwickshire, England; died before 12 Jan 1278.

  3. 34.  James de Bisege was born in of Baddesley, Warwickshire, England (son of Ralph de Bisege).

    Notes:

    Also called James de Biseche; de Bisey; de Bisley.

    James married Matilda. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  4. 35.  Matilda
    Children:
    1. 17. Mazera de Bisege was born in of Baddesley, Warwickshire, England.

  5. 40.  Hugh de Odingsells was born in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England; died between 1235 and 13 May 1239.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: 1238
    • Alternate death: 1239

    Notes:

    Thomas Christopher Banks's Baronia Anglica Concentrata states that he was a Fleming.

    Hugh married Basilia de Limesi after 1198. Basilia (daughter of Gerard de Limesi and Amicia de Bidun) died after 1224. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  6. 41.  Basilia de Limesi (daughter of Gerard de Limesi and Amicia de Bidun); died after 1224.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Bef 13 May 1239

    Notes:

    Also called Basilia de Lindsay.

    Children:
    1. 20. William de Odingsells was born in of Maxstoke, Warwickshire, England; died in 1271.

  7. 44.  Robert fitz Walter was born in Little Dunmow, Essex, England (son of Walter fitz Robert and Maud de Lucy); died on 9 Dec 1235.

    Notes:

    Leader of the Magna Carta sureties. From the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography:

    "Fitzwalter, Robert (d. 1235), magnate and rebel, lord of Dunmow, Essex and Baynard's Castle, London, was the son of Walter fitz Robert and Matilda, daughter of Henry II's justiciar Richard de Lucy. Henry I had granted the honours of Dunmow and Baynard's Castle to Walter's father, Robert, the king's steward, a younger son of Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare. The date of Fitzwalter's birth is unknown, as are the circumstances of his upbringing, though he may be the Robert Fitzwalter mentioned in the Histoire de Guillaume le Maréchal as fighting in the Young King's retinue of over 200 knights at the great tournament at Lagny-sur-Marne in 1180.

    "[...]

    "The families of Quincy and Fitzwalter had long been linked, for Robert's father, Walter, and Saer (d. 1190) were half-brothers, the latter's father, also Saer, having married Maud de Senlis, the widow of Robert fitz Richard (d. 1134), and the Quincys held a fief of 1 1/2 fees from the barony of Dunmow. In a noted demonstration of alliance Fitzwalter and Quincy each bore the other's arms on their seals.

    "[...]

    "Fitzwalter's close involvement with the rebellion of 1215–17 and with Magna Carta has ensured his prominence, but historians have been sharply divided in their assessment of him. To Tout, Fitzwalter was 'the first champion of English liberty' (DNB), and prefigured Simon de Montfort. Others, like Norgate and Painter, reacting against this naive idealism, dismissed him as a haughty, selfish, but ultimately cowardly, feudal grandee, ready to obstruct justice by private warfare and to cloak treason with a series of makeshift justifications. Yet, given John's harsh and arbitrary rule, the king's opponents had little option save for conspiracy or armed rebellion, particularly after 1213 when Innocent III fully supported John. To see Fitzwalter falling short of the qualities of a great constitutional statesman is to be as anachronistic as Tout. He may have fought in large part to avenge personal wrongs and to regain lost rights, but he played an important role in sustaining the resistance which resulted in Magna Carta. Although Fitzwalter was resolute in his opposition to John, his participation on crusade and his conduct during Henry III's minority belie the image of a turbulent malcontent. Matthew Paris had little cause to praise Fitzwalter, but the final verdict is best left to him. He 'could match any earl in England; valiant in arms, spirited and illustrious, endowed with many possessions, generous, encompassed by a multitude of powerful blood relatives and strengthened by numerous relatives in marriage' (Gesta abbatum, 1.220–21)."

    Robert married Rohese. Rohese died in 1256 in Woodham Walter, Essex, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  8. 45.  Rohese died in 1256 in Woodham Walter, Essex, England.

    Notes:

    Or Rose.

    Children:
    1. Maud fitz Walter was born about 1161; died after 26 Jan 1196.
    2. 22. Walter fitz Robert was born about 1219 in of Woodham Walter, Essex, England; died before 10 Apr 1258.

  9. 46.  William I Longespée was born in 1170 (son of Henry II, King of England and Ida de Tony); died about 1225; was buried in Salisbury Cathedral, Wiltshire, England.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate birth: Abt 1175
    • Alternate birth: Between 1175 and 1180
    • Alternate birth: Abt 1176
    • Alternate death: 7 Mar 1226, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England

    Notes:

    Earl of Salisbury. Among the advisors to King John at Runnymede.

    Lieutenant of Gascony 1202; Seneschal of Avranches 1203; Constable of Dover Castle and Warden of the Cinque Ports 1204-6; Sheriff of Wiltshire 1204-7, 1213-26; Lord of the Honour and Castle of Eye 1205; Cheriff of Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire 1212-21; Sheriff of Shropshire and Staffordshire 1223-4; Constable of Portchester, Southampton, and Winchester Castle 1224; Keeper of the March of Wales.

    Yes, there really were two Ida de Longespees, and they were sisters. SGM post:

    From: Douglas Richardson Subject: Parentage of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 08:51:45 -0700 (PDT)

    There has been discussion in the past on the newsgroup regarding the placement of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, in the Longespée family tree. Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 472 (sub FitzWalter) identifies Ida as "daughter of William (Longespée), Earl of Salisbury." The William Longespée intended here is presumably William Longespée I who died in 1226, not his son, William II, who died in 1250. If so, this would give Earl William Longespée I and his wife, Ela, two adult daughters named Ida, one of whom married Walter Fitz Robert, and the other who married William de Beauchamp. Curiously Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 381-382 footnote k (sub Salisbury) confuses Walter Fitz Robert's wife Ida with her sister of the same name who married William de Beauchamp; it also misidentifies Walter Fitz Robert's parentage.

    The identification of Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, as a Longespée has traditionally rested on a pedigree of the Longespée family found in Lacock Priory cartulary. This pedigree lists the various children of William Longespée I, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife, Ela of Salisbury, including:

    "Idam de Camyle, quam duxit in uxorem Walterus fil. Roberti, de qua genuit Catherinam et Loricam, quæ velatæ erant apud Lacok; Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingeseles, de qua genuit Robertum") [Reference: Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6(1) (1830): 501].

    It is not known exactly why Ida Longespée is here styled Ida de Camyle in this record. I've assumed, however, that Ida may have had a brief Camville marriage previous to her known marriage to Walter Fitz Robert. If so, a previous Camvillle marriage would explain her use of the Camville surname as a grown adult. Ida's older brother, William Longespée II, is known, for example, to have married a member of the Camville family.

    There are two contemporary records which prove that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was in fact a Longespée. The first record comes from List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer, which source contains an abstract of a letter dated 1261-1263 from Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, written to Walter de Merton, the king's chancellor, in which Ida specifically styles herself Ida Longespée:

    "152. Ida Longespée, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, to the same [Walter de Merton, Chancellor]: to bail two of her men appealed of homicide. [1261-1263]." [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer (PRO Lists and Indexes 15) (1902): 107-108].

    Elsewhere I find that Calendar of Liberate Rolls 5 (1961): 93 likewise refers to Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, as "Ida Lungespee:"

    Date: 11 May 1162 -- "Liberate to Geoffrey de Lezinan, the king's brother, 40l. in recompense of a like sum received there of the issues of the manor of Henham [Essex] by the hands of Ida Lungespee." END OF QUOTE.

    To date to my knowledge no one has discovered Ida Longespée's maritagium, although she certainly had one in marriage. Recently I encountered a record which evidently concerns her maritagium. The record in question is a Wiltshire pleading which dates from 1249:

    "Walter son of Robert and Ida his wife, by Ida's attorney by writ of the present king, who brought an assize of novel disseisin against William Lungepeie for holdings in Scepperingge and Heniton, Farlegh' and Bidinham, have come and withdrawn by licence. It is agreed between them that Walter and Ida had put themselves utterly in William's grace for those holdings." [Reference: Clanchy, Civil Pleas of the Wiltshire Eyre 1249 (Wiltshire Rec. Soc. 26) (1971): 152].

    The lands involved in this lawsuit can be identified as Sheepbridge (in Swallowfield), Hinton (in Hurst), Farley [Hill] (in Swallowfield), and Diddenham (in Shinfield), all in modern Berkshire but formerly in Wiltshire. These lands were apparently held by William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela.

    VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 267-274 states that Sheepbridge "belonged with Hinton in 1236 to Ela, Countess of Salisbury." Countess Ela named here was the widow of William Longespée I. VCH's statement regarding Countess Ela's holding of these lands is based on a charter found in Calendar of Charter Rolls 1226 - 57, page 221, whereby the king confirmed a grant of Countess Ela of various lands to Lacock Abbey, in exchange for "10 l. yearly receivable ...... .of the manors of Shiperige and Henton, and the advowson of the church of Winterburn Shyreveton."

    The above record may be viewed at the following weblink:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=1dELAQA AIAAJ&pg=PP1&dq=Calendar+Charter+Rolls+1226&hl=en&ei=M-U4TrbTFYvXiALj163DDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=r esult&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Calendar%20Charter%20Rolls%201226&f=false

    Countess Ela's charter is undated but surely must date from around 1236. My files notes show the following information:

    "In Feb. 1236 her son and heir, William Longespée, guaranteed her gifts to Lacock Abbey, while she agreed to surrender all her lands, rents and rights to him on 1 Nov. following. On 25 Oct. 1236 Ela, Countess of Salisbury, reached agreement with William Longespée, her first born son, that she may grant a moiety of the manor of Heddington, Wiltshire to Lacock Priory, which property fell to her on the death of Maud de Mandeville, Countess of Essex and Hereford. In the winter 1236 - 7 she resigned her custody of the county of Wiltshire. She subsequently entered her religious foundation at Lacock, where she took the veil before spring 1238." END OF QUOTE FROM MY FILE NOTES.

    Following Countess Ela's surrender of her lands to her son, William Longespée II, he in turn granted the four properties in question, namely Sheepbridge, Hinton, Farley, and Diddenham, to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. The date of this grant is sometime before 1239-40.

    In that year Sir Henry de la Mare was involved in a legal action concerning these four properties. A reference to this lawsuit may be found in Maitland, Bracton's Note Book 3 (1887): 286 - 287. This may be viewed at the following weblink:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=DtcQAAA AYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:LtFTiI1NIsEC&hl=en&ei=nmw5TsSXK42IsAKv3OEg&sa=X&oi=book_result &ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    So the question arises: When did Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida Longespée, acquire their interest in the four properties? The answer to that question is not exact but surely it must have dated from the time that Countess Ela of Salisbury was holding these properties and before 1 Nov. 1236 when Countess Ela surrendered all her lands, rents, and rights to her son, William Longespée II. Walter and Ida can't have acquired their interest from William Longespée II, as once his mother released her lands to him, he almost immediately conveyed these four properties to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. One of these properties, Hinton, subsequently descended to Sir Henry de la Mare's daughter and heiress, Maud, wife of Peter de Montfort, and thence to her descendants [see VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 247 - 260].

    So besides knowing that Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée obtained their interest in the properties before 1236, what else can we know? More specifically, why would Ida claim these lands, if her brother had granted them to his seneschal?

    The answer to this question is not clear but a reasonable guess would be that these four properties were put up as Ida's maritagium when she was contracted to marry a Camville and that when the contracted Camville marriage failed to materialize or produced no issue, by the terms of the marriage contract, the lands returned to Ida's family. At that point, Ida's claim to the lands was essentially voided. This in turn would explain why Ida's brother, William Longespée II, felt free to grant these lands elsewhere to Sir Henry de la Mare.

    In summary, adequate evidence has been located which indicates that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was a Longespée. In 1249 Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida, sued William Longespée II regarding four properties then in Wiltshire, but now in Berkshire. The four properties in question were apparently part of the inheritance of Ida's mother, Countess Ela, who appears to have controlled the lands until 1236, when she released her lands to her son, William Longespée II. Ida's rights must predate 1236, as William Longespée II almost immediately conveyed these properties before 1239-40 to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. Thus William Longespée II can not have offered them as Ida's maritagium. This in turn implies that Ida Longespée was the daughter of William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela, and not William Longespée II.

    For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert:

    Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Walter Aston, Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George & Robert Brent, Thomas Bressey, Edward Bromfield, Nathaniel Browne, Obadiah Bruen, Stephen Bull, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy Clarke, Matthew Clarkson, St. Leger Codd, Henry Corbin, Francis Dade, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Thomas Dudley, William Farrer, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Katherine Hamby, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Nathaniel Littleton, Henry, Jane & Nicholas Lowe, Symon Lynde, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, George Reade, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stratton, James Taylor, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, Olive Welby, John West, Thomas Yale.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    William married Ela of Salisbury before Sep 1197. Ela (daughter of William fitz Patrick and Eleanor de Vitré) was born about 1191 in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England; died on 24 Aug 1261 in Lacock, Wiltshire, England; was buried in 1261 in Lacock Abbey, Lacock, Wiltshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  10. 47.  Ela of Salisbury was born about 1191 in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England (daughter of William fitz Patrick and Eleanor de Vitré); died on 24 Aug 1261 in Lacock, Wiltshire, England; was buried in 1261 in Lacock Abbey, Lacock, Wiltshire, England.

    Notes:

    Also called Ela fitz William. Founded the abbey at Laycock, 1238; abbess, 1240-57. Buried "in the convent choir beneath the altar." [Royal Ancestry]

    Children:
    1. Idonea de Longespée died after 1266.
    2. Stephen Longespée was born in of King's Sutton, Northamptonshire, England; died before 25 Jun 1260; was buried in Lacock Abbey, Lacock, Wiltshire, England.
    3. 23. Ida Longespée died after 1261.
    4. William Longespée was born before 12 May 1205; died on 7 Feb 1249 in Mansourah, Egypt.