Maud fitz Thomas

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate birth: 1271
• Alternate birth: Abt 1269-1272
• Alternate death: Aft 28 May 1329

Notes:

Also called Maud (or Matilda) Fitz Otto, Fitz Otes, etc.

"As a descendant of Otto the goldsmith, she held the hereditary serjeantry of the Cutter of the Dies, whose duty was to supervise die production in London for distribution to the many regional mints. [...John de Boutetourt] died in 1324. [...Maud] survived and in 1329 sold the office of graver and worker of the dies in the Tower of London and the city of Canterbury which was held in chief, to William Le Latymer (Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III 1:391), who had married her daughter Elizabeth. [F. N. Craig, "Descent from a Domesday Goldsmith." The American Genealogist 65:1, January 1990, p. 24.]

Maud married John Botetourt before Jun 1282. John (son of Guy Botetourt and Ada) died on 25 Nov 1324. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

1. Thomas Botetourt was born in of Upton, Norfolk, England; died before 28 Jul 1322.
2. Otes Botetourt was born in of Mendlesham, Suffolk, England; died on 11 Nov 1345.
3. Ada Botetourt died before 31 May 1349.
4. Elizabeth Botetourt died on 11 Apr 1384.

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate death: Bef 28 Mar 1274

Notes:

Also called Thomas fitz Otto.

Hereditary Coiner of the Mint in the Tower of London and City of Canterbury.

"In [1261] the king took the homage of Thomas and granted him the serjeanty (Excerpta E Rotulis Fiunium [London 1835-36] 2:355). In 1265 Thomas son of Otto was to be given the scrap iron from the broken dies, as his father Otto son of William and his ancestors had had (Calendar of Close Rolls, Henry III 13:19)."

Thomas married Beatrice de Beauchamp before 1264. Beatrice (daughter of William de Beauchamp and Idonea de Longespée) died about 1281. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate death: Bef 30 Sep 1285

Notes:

"She was a daughter of William Beauchamp and his second wife Idonea, daughter of William Longespee, a natural son of king Henry II." [F. N. Craig, "Descent from a Domesday Goldsmith." The American Genealogist 65:1, January 1990, p. 24.]

Notes:

Also called Otto.

Hereditary coiner of the Mint. "By 1219 Otto had succeeded his father and was holding Lisson Green by the serjeanty of custodian of the dies. [F. N. Craig, "Descent from a Domesday Goldsmith." The American Genealogist 65:1, January 1990, p. 24.]

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate birth: Abt 1186, of Bedford, Bedfordshire, England
• Alternate death: Aft 28 Dec 1260

Notes:

Baron of the Exchequer. Sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire 1235-37.

"He joined the baronial host at Stamford in 1215, and entertained them at Bedford as they marched on London. He was among the baronial leaders excommunicated by name in Dec. 1215. [...] He was taken prisoner at Lincoln by the royal forces in May 1217, but made his peace before the end of the year." [Royal Ancestry]

William married Idonea de Longespée about Jan 1220. Idonea (daughter of William I Longespée and Ela of Salisbury) died after 1266. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate death: Bef 1270

Notes:

Also called Ida de Longespee, but not to be confused with her sister Ida de Longespee.

Notes:

Also called William fitz Otho. "In 1198 he held 'Lilleston' by service in the king's mint, and land in the hundred of Spelthorn in Middlesex by serjeanty of the dies in London." [F. N. Craig, "Descent from a Domesday Goldsmith." The American Genealogist 65:1, January 1990, p. 24.]

William married Matilda Dyve. Matilda (daughter of William Dyve and Matilda de Waterville) died after 1222. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Also called Matilda de Diva.

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate death: 1208

Notes:

Sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire 1195-98.

Simon married Isabella. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate birth: Abt 1175
• Alternate birth: Between 1175 and 1180
• Alternate birth: Abt 1176
• Alternate death: 7 Mar 1226, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England

Notes:

Earl of Salisbury. Among the advisors to King John at Runnymede.

Lieutenant of Gascony 1202; Seneschal of Avranches 1203; Constable of Dover Castle and Warden of the Cinque Ports 1204-6; Sheriff of Wiltshire 1204-7, 1213-26; Lord of the Honour and Castle of Eye 1205; Cheriff of Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire 1212-21; Sheriff of Shropshire and Staffordshire 1223-4; Constable of Portchester, Southampton, and Winchester Castle 1224; Keeper of the March of Wales.

Yes, there really were two Ida de Longespees, and they were sisters. SGM post:

From: Douglas Richardson Subject: Parentage of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 08:51:45 -0700 (PDT)

There has been discussion in the past on the newsgroup regarding the placement of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, in the Longespée family tree. Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 472 (sub FitzWalter) identifies Ida as "daughter of William (Longespée), Earl of Salisbury." The William Longespée intended here is presumably William Longespée I who died in 1226, not his son, William II, who died in 1250. If so, this would give Earl William Longespée I and his wife, Ela, two adult daughters named Ida, one of whom married Walter Fitz Robert, and the other who married William de Beauchamp. Curiously Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 381-382 footnote k (sub Salisbury) confuses Walter Fitz Robert's wife Ida with her sister of the same name who married William de Beauchamp; it also misidentifies Walter Fitz Robert's parentage.

The identification of Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, as a Longespée has traditionally rested on a pedigree of the Longespée family found in Lacock Priory cartulary. This pedigree lists the various children of William Longespée I, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife, Ela of Salisbury, including:

"Idam de Camyle, quam duxit in uxorem Walterus fil. Roberti, de qua genuit Catherinam et Loricam, quæ velatæ erant apud Lacok; Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingeseles, de qua genuit Robertum") [Reference: Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6(1) (1830): 501].

It is not known exactly why Ida Longespée is here styled Ida de Camyle in this record. I've assumed, however, that Ida may have had a brief Camville marriage previous to her known marriage to Walter Fitz Robert. If so, a previous Camvillle marriage would explain her use of the Camville surname as a grown adult. Ida's older brother, William Longespée II, is known, for example, to have married a member of the Camville family.

There are two contemporary records which prove that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was in fact a Longespée. The first record comes from List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer, which source contains an abstract of a letter dated 1261-1263 from Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, written to Walter de Merton, the king's chancellor, in which Ida specifically styles herself Ida Longespée:

"152. Ida Longespée, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, to the same [Walter de Merton, Chancellor]: to bail two of her men appealed of homicide. [1261-1263]." [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer (PRO Lists and Indexes 15) (1902): 107-108].

Elsewhere I find that Calendar of Liberate Rolls 5 (1961): 93 likewise refers to Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, as "Ida Lungespee:"

Date: 11 May 1162 -- "Liberate to Geoffrey de Lezinan, the king's brother, 40l. in recompense of a like sum received there of the issues of the manor of Henham [Essex] by the hands of Ida Lungespee." END OF QUOTE.

To date to my knowledge no one has discovered Ida Longespée's maritagium, although she certainly had one in marriage. Recently I encountered a record which evidently concerns her maritagium. The record in question is a Wiltshire pleading which dates from 1249:

"Walter son of Robert and Ida his wife, by Ida's attorney by writ of the present king, who brought an assize of novel disseisin against William Lungepeie for holdings in Scepperingge and Heniton, Farlegh' and Bidinham, have come and withdrawn by licence. It is agreed between them that Walter and Ida had put themselves utterly in William's grace for those holdings." [Reference: Clanchy, Civil Pleas of the Wiltshire Eyre 1249 (Wiltshire Rec. Soc. 26) (1971): 152].

The lands involved in this lawsuit can be identified as Sheepbridge (in Swallowfield), Hinton (in Hurst), Farley [Hill] (in Swallowfield), and Diddenham (in Shinfield), all in modern Berkshire but formerly in Wiltshire. These lands were apparently held by William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela.

VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 267-274 states that Sheepbridge "belonged with Hinton in 1236 to Ela, Countess of Salisbury." Countess Ela named here was the widow of William Longespée I. VCH's statement regarding Countess Ela's holding of these lands is based on a charter found in Calendar of Charter Rolls 1226 - 57, page 221, whereby the king confirmed a grant of Countess Ela of various lands to Lacock Abbey, in exchange for "10 l. yearly receivable ...... .of the manors of Shiperige and Henton, and the advowson of the church of Winterburn Shyreveton."

The above record may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=1dELAQA AIAAJ&pg=PP1&dq=Calendar+Charter+Rolls+1226&hl=en&ei=M-U4TrbTFYvXiALj163DDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=r esult&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Calendar%20Charter%20Rolls%201226&f=false

Countess Ela's charter is undated but surely must date from around 1236. My files notes show the following information:

"In Feb. 1236 her son and heir, William Longespée, guaranteed her gifts to Lacock Abbey, while she agreed to surrender all her lands, rents and rights to him on 1 Nov. following. On 25 Oct. 1236 Ela, Countess of Salisbury, reached agreement with William Longespée, her first born son, that she may grant a moiety of the manor of Heddington, Wiltshire to Lacock Priory, which property fell to her on the death of Maud de Mandeville, Countess of Essex and Hereford. In the winter 1236 - 7 she resigned her custody of the county of Wiltshire. She subsequently entered her religious foundation at Lacock, where she took the veil before spring 1238." END OF QUOTE FROM MY FILE NOTES.

Following Countess Ela's surrender of her lands to her son, William Longespée II, he in turn granted the four properties in question, namely Sheepbridge, Hinton, Farley, and Diddenham, to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. The date of this grant is sometime before 1239-40.

In that year Sir Henry de la Mare was involved in a legal action concerning these four properties. A reference to this lawsuit may be found in Maitland, Bracton's Note Book 3 (1887): 286 - 287. This may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=DtcQAAA AYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:LtFTiI1NIsEC&hl=en&ei=nmw5TsSXK42IsAKv3OEg&sa=X&oi=book_result &ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

So the question arises: When did Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida Longespée, acquire their interest in the four properties? The answer to that question is not exact but surely it must have dated from the time that Countess Ela of Salisbury was holding these properties and before 1 Nov. 1236 when Countess Ela surrendered all her lands, rents, and rights to her son, William Longespée II. Walter and Ida can't have acquired their interest from William Longespée II, as once his mother released her lands to him, he almost immediately conveyed these four properties to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. One of these properties, Hinton, subsequently descended to Sir Henry de la Mare's daughter and heiress, Maud, wife of Peter de Montfort, and thence to her descendants [see VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 247 - 260].

So besides knowing that Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée obtained their interest in the properties before 1236, what else can we know? More specifically, why would Ida claim these lands, if her brother had granted them to his seneschal?

The answer to this question is not clear but a reasonable guess would be that these four properties were put up as Ida's maritagium when she was contracted to marry a Camville and that when the contracted Camville marriage failed to materialize or produced no issue, by the terms of the marriage contract, the lands returned to Ida's family. At that point, Ida's claim to the lands was essentially voided. This in turn would explain why Ida's brother, William Longespée II, felt free to grant these lands elsewhere to Sir Henry de la Mare.

In summary, adequate evidence has been located which indicates that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was a Longespée. In 1249 Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida, sued William Longespée II regarding four properties then in Wiltshire, but now in Berkshire. The four properties in question were apparently part of the inheritance of Ida's mother, Countess Ela, who appears to have controlled the lands until 1236, when she released her lands to her son, William Longespée II. Ida's rights must predate 1236, as William Longespée II almost immediately conveyed these properties before 1239-40 to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. Thus William Longespée II can not have offered them as Ida's maritagium. This in turn implies that Ida Longespée was the daughter of William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela, and not William Longespée II.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert:

Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Walter Aston, Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George & Robert Brent, Thomas Bressey, Edward Bromfield, Nathaniel Browne, Obadiah Bruen, Stephen Bull, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy Clarke, Matthew Clarkson, St. Leger Codd, Henry Corbin, Francis Dade, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Thomas Dudley, William Farrer, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Katherine Hamby, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Nathaniel Littleton, Henry, Jane & Nicholas Lowe, Symon Lynde, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, George Reade, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stratton, James Taylor, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, Olive Welby, John West, Thomas Yale.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

William married Ela of Salisbury before Sep 1197. Ela (daughter of William fitz Patrick and Eleanor de Vitré) was born about 1191 in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England; died on 24 Aug 1261 in Lacock, Wiltshire, England; was buried in 1261 in Lacock Abbey, Lacock, Wiltshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Also called Ela fitz William. Founded the abbey at Laycock, 1238; abbess, 1240-57. Buried "in the convent choir beneath the altar." [Royal Ancestry]