Hugues II

Other Events and Attributes:

• Alternate death: Bef 991

Notes:

Comte de Maine.

From The Henry Project:

Given the continuing use of the name Hugues by the counts of Maine, it is not surprising that some have believed that Hugues II was a son of Hugues I. This conjecture has sometimes been stated with some kind of qualification [e.g., "peut-être un fils de Hughes Ier ou un autre de ses parents" Latouche (1910), 16; "probably his son" Barton (2004), 41; "probably his son" Keats-Rohan (1997), 192, but without qualification on the table on p. 194], but the relationship has often been stated without such qualification [Werner (1967), 461; Keats-Rohan (1996), 27 (table); Keats-Rohan (2000), 65 (table); Settipani (2000), 258 (table); Settipani (2004), 233, 235 (table)]

Unfortunately, there is a twenty-four year gap between the last confirmed appearance of count Hugues I and the first confirmed appearance of Hugues II. (Here, I am regarding the identification with the counts Hugues appearing in two Poitevin charters from the 930's and the 939 appearance of a count Hugues in Le Baud, a very late source, as unconfirmed. See the page of Hugues I.) Indeed, there might even be enough room for a possible additional generation between Hugues I and Hugues II, although too little is known about the chronology to be sure in that regard (and even if there was an extra generation it would be rash to assume that the intervening individual was named David). Lacking better information, the above cautious statement by Latouche seems to reflect the situation well.

Family/Spouse: Unknown. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Comte de Maine.

Family/Spouse: Unknown. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Comte de Maine. Called "Eveille-Chien," which "may refer to someone who gets up early to go hunting with his pack of dogs." According to Orderic Vitalis, he acquired his epithet because of the continuing need to resist the devastations caused by his Angevin neighbours." [Leo van de Pas, citation details below.]

Family/Spouse: Unknown. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Also called Gersent de la Mans.

Carl Boyer, in his Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans, states that Thibaut III was married three times: first to Gersenda of Maine, daughter of Herbert, Count of Maine, second to a Gundrada, and third to Alix de Crepi. He gives Etienne Henri (whom he calls "Stephen III") as a son of the second wife.

Douglas Richardson, in Royal Ancestry, also gives Etienne Henri as a son of Gundrada / Gondrée.

Both Richardson and Boyer cite Arbois de Jubainville's 1859 Histoire des Ducs et des Comtes de Champagne, which contains a charter of Count Etienne and his wife Ala, dated 1089, which names his father, Count Thibaut, and his mother, Gundrea.

Answering a query from us on soc.genealogy.medieval, Joe Cook pointed out, on 12 Jan 2020, that the question is "if it is more likely that Thibaut had a wife Gundreae who appears only in one place in recorded history (this charter of 1089 [...]) who died shortly after this birth...or if someone perhaps misread 'Gersendae' as 'Gundreae' when transcribing the charter. The latter seems a lot more likely to me; but doubt it can be resolved beyond that?"

Peter Stewart also remarked on the subject, saying on the same date: "I agree with this, as implicitly did Henri d'Arbois de Jubainville whose book (vol. 1, cited by Joe above) is cited for 'Gundrea'. In his own work (same vol., p. 392 note 5) he stated that Stephen Henry was the son of his father's first wife Gersende of Maine, but on p. 504 he printed the charter dated 1089 representing that Stephen Henry named his mother as 'Gundre'. However, Arbois de Jubainville took this charter directly from the text as printed in a history of Blois published in 1682, where the same name is clearly given as 'Gandrea' - and as suggested by Joe, this is fairly likely to be a copyist's error for Garsenda."

Family/Spouse: Thibaut III. Thibaut (son of Odo II and Ermengarde of Auvergne) was born about 1010; died on 29 Sep 1089 in Epernay, Marne, France. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]